Archived '91 Ran out of Fuel-Won't start - HELP

[Tejasdge]

I'm visiting my cousin and he ran his '91 out of fuel. We've primed it with the lever, blown compressed air into the tank, purged the injectors while cranking and still no go. What are we missing?

 

[Paychk]

Crack open the injector lines at the injectors, crank engine no more than 30 seconds at a time, close the lines, do this for each injector. Sometimes it helps to do this in the firing order. If you have to keep cranking the engine, to do this, wait 2 minutes between cranks or the starter can burn up. You may need to go through a couple of bleed cycles to get all the air out. As soon as you do it will start trying to fire. Good luck



Firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4 cyl #1 closest to radiator #6 at the fire wall

 

[Andy Morrison]

take the fuse out of the circuit for the intake heaters and give it a very small shot of starting fluid. Should start and run a little ruff till all the air is out of the system in just a few seconds.



Andy

 

[cotto]

Be careful with starting fluid. I have always been told to never use the stuff on a diesel. Just a thought. Make sure you start with the jigger pump first (just below the filter). Before doing this, loosen the bolt (about 10 mm, about 1/2 to 3/4 turn) in the middle of the bango fitting just above the fuel filter. (If you do not loosen the bolt you probably will not purge all the air out of the filter area. ) Pump the jigger until fuel comes out of the bango, then tighten down the bolt and lift the jigger up into the locked/run position. If you do not feel resistance while moving the jigger lever, crank the engine for a quick second and try again. No resistance means fuel is not being pumped. (this got me one time) Then you know fuel has filled the filter. Then proceed with the cylinders. Because the tank was run dry, you might want to change the filter as well, you might have pulled some grim from the bottom of the tank that you don't want running through your pump. I got this process from Cummins Northwest when I ran mine out of fuel. Good Luck!

Cotto

 

[dseabaugh]

1. Take the oportunity to change the filter. You have no better time than this.

2. Prime filter with fuel. It will spit air and fuel untill it shoot out solid streams of fuel you want all fuel , otherwise it still has air in it. Shut off bleeder .



3. " Loosen" bango bolt that holds fuel line to pump and continue to prime until it is shooting all fuel and no air. tighten line. do not unscrew banjo bolt all the way when you loosen it or you may lose the sealing washers.

4. crack 3 injector lines.



5 when it starts trying to hit when you crank it tighten the lines.



This should have up up and running. Most of the time when people see some fuel spurt out when they are bleeding the filter they stop bleeding, but it is usually air blowing out some fuel with it until you get all the air out. If you ran it out till it quit, then the fuel lines and pump have air in them too.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

I noticed that if the fuel pump is worn excessively the primer lever will have little if any resistance, even when the engine is bumped several times. If you find the same thing it may be time for a new fuel lift pump.



Also, check for voltage to the fuel shut off solenoid with the key in the "start" and "run" positions. No voltage = no fuel. No voltage can be temporarily fixed by running a wire directly from the positive bat term. Be sure to remove it when not needed or the battery will be drained.



Trent

 

[Tejasdge]

Thanks for the replies.



We have done a lot of the things mentioned, filter, banjo fitting, injectors one at a time. Even pressurized the tank with compressed air. The pump lever doesn't have a lot of resistance, so a new lift pump may help. We will try the shutoff solenoid and opening 3 injectors.



Thanks

 

[Woodenhead]

I ran my '89 out of fuel once while I had er right to the boards. I tried the prime lever (jigger) but it must not have been moving fuel. So I just loosened the lines at the injector end for #1 thru. 5#. Cranked it till I saw fuel. Close the lines and she lit right up.



Mike

 

[dseabaugh]

If the truck is not sitting on level sometimes you can't get fuel to prime without putting in at least 5 gallon of fuel.

These 30+ gallon tanks aren't like a chevy Geo where you pour in 1 gallon and go.

 

[CumminsAholic]

I'd agree with redbadge, it may be time for a new lift pump. If it's good and you have enough fuel in the tank it should have started by priming the lift pump and holding it wide open while cranking it over.

Corey

 

[Tejasdge]

He put 18 gallons of fuel in and we lifted the rear end of the truck about a foot above level. There appears to be no voltage to the shut-off solenoid, but jumping it didn't seem to do any thing. No click, etc. There is fuel leaking out of the throttle linkage area, so that may be another gremlin to chase. He thinks a few screws shook loose. Really apreciate the feedback. Keep the ideas comming and I'll let you know the outcome.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Did you try ether yet? If not, do as mentioned above and remove heater grid wires, remove intake boot at the intake horn, and shoot just a LITTLE ether in as someone is cranking. If it won't try to start this way then we are looking at broken camshaft, broken crankshaft, broken timing gear, missing teeth on timing gears, etc.



BTW, when you crack the injector line loose at the injector is there 1. no fuel, 2. fuel dribbling, or 3. fuel squirting out? BE CAREFUL!!! FUEL UNDER PRESSURE CAN PENETRATE SKIN AND CAUSE INJURY OR DEATH!!! I know a guy who lost his arm up past the elbow from hydraulic fluid squirting out of a broken hose. Fluid went into his arm, he woke up in the hospital with his arm amputated in order to save his life. And hydraulic systems typically generate 3000 psi or less. Our fuel injection systems can approach 18,000 psi, and over 25,000 psi in the HPCR systems.



Trent



On second thought, is there fuel going into the pump? Need as much detail as you can give in order to know which way to direct you.



Trent

 

[Tejasdge]

He has fuel to the injectors, but I was cranking it over and could only see some splashing from behind the valve cover. It did run for a moment on ether so I think that it is in the fuel system.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Try starting it on ether and keep it running on ether (short, quick blasts).



When you say "He has fuel to the injectors" does that mean...

1. dribbling

or

2. squirting?



Trent

 

[bmoeller]

Originally posted by Tejasdge

There is fuel leaking out of the throttle linkage area, so that may be another gremlin to chase.

Even with that problem, depending on how bad it is, it should still be able to start. It could let air in, so that won't help you any.



No voltage to the shut off solenoid won't do you any good if that is the case.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Running the engine on ether for any period of time other than to kick it over and get it started is not recommended.

The ether has zero lubrication properties, in fact it's just the opposite, it dry's things up real quick.

The fuel solenoid may be bad too. You'll have to take it one step at a time and isolate each component.

Strange that it was running before this... or did I miss that part??



PB

 

[Tejasdge]

Cousin said it was squirting out of all but #6 that is more of a fast dribble. It was running when it died as he drove into his driveway. His '91 only has one battery so I am assuming that the fuel shut-off is 12 volt variety and not the 24 volt. US Diesel Parts has both. Is the fuel shut-off the round 1 inch cylinder below the throttle linkage with a single spade connector on it? Also has what looks like a mini injector line running up to the injector pump.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Tejasdge,



Yes, the solenoid is what you described. However, if fuel is squirting out 5 of the injector lines then the solenoid is not the problem. To prove this, crank the engine with the spade connector removed. After the initial fuel comes out of the injector lines it should begin reducing the amount greatly to where there is little or no fuel coming out of the injector lines.



Are you positive that the engine is getting air? Take the boot off of the intake horn and put your hand over it while someone is cranking. Is there suction? I assume so since it would sputter on ether.



Next step would be to determine that the fuel injection pump is timed properly. There is a key on the shaft of the pump that could shear and the timing could slip to the point where the engine would not run even though fuel was still being injected. Also could be a broken timing gear, broken teeth on the gear. This would also apply to the camshaft.



OH! NEW THOUGHT! Has the kdp been neutered on this truck? How about the bolts inside the timing gear case? Have they been loc-tited? Hhhhmmmmm...



Not trying to scare ya. Just thinking of possibilities.



Let us know...



Trent

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Fuel injection pump link

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/recalls/605.htm



This has a pic of the timing pump shaft with key.



Thanks to Fritz for a great site!



Trent

 

[Tejasdge]

The truck has run momentarily on ether, so it is sucking some air and I think he has already dealt with the KDP. Just doesn't make sense that there would be a problem outside of the fuel delivery system prime, when he just ran it out of fuel, but stranger things have happened.