Archived '91 Ran out of Fuel-Won't start - HELP

[dseabaugh]

Have a good look at the fuel that you pumping out when you prime it. I had an experience one time where there was water in the fuel and even though it looked and smelled like fuel, when I ran some of it out into a jar I was very obvius it was very watered. It was on one of our tractors. It was sitting in the driveway running and I was in the house talking to my wife. I Suddenly noticed the tractor was not running anymore even though the gauge and a dipstick showed it had some fuel. Like I said, It looked like fuel , and it smelled like fuel, but it was not diesel.

 

[steveinaz]

TRY ATF!

I do 20 to 30 oil changes a week and always put atf in the fuel filters. I have cummins, perkins,cat,mack,john deere,and reneault diesels. Occasionaly I have them run out of fuel. the first thing that i do is fill the fuel filter with atf, then fill the tank with diesel of course. I have used ether but i prefer a rag with gasoline on it. I just hold it near the air intake while the operator cranks the engine. The cummins intake heater needs to be disabled when you do this!

 

[Tejasdge]

I'm heading down again this weekend and will most likely be helping him on this some more. He replaced the two screws that rattled out in the throttle linkage area and the injecters were squirting over the fender now when being purged. But still doesn't start. He's been running himself to death with farming and all, so has only had a few minutes to work on it here and there.

 

[hmickelson]

if you start on ether simultaneously use WD40. Hold one in each hand and continue as using ether alone. A very reliable source conveyed this to me several years ago. Fortunately I have not had to use it. The purpose is to slightly dilute the ether to minimize any engeine damage. hmickelson

 

[dseabaugh]

After you have the fuel 'squirting over the fender' all you should have to do is tighten the line back up and start it. It won't start as long as it is squirting fuel outside the system.

 

[Tejasdge]

Well, he got it running... . sorta. With the acellerator pedal to the floor it will only idle. Dies otherwise. This is with the air intake both on and off. Also the injector pump was missing two screws and leaking. He replaced the screws, but it is still leaking so something is not right with the injector pump. The leak is around the throttle linkake area. Is there a gasket set available that is do-it-yourself friendly? The only numbers he found on the pump was 419-4. If that helps at all.



Thanks

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Tejasdge, in case I missed something I apologize in advance, if not, then... ... ... the start/stop solenoid is not the one with the "little fuel injection line" thing. That is the KSB solenoid and it's only function is on cold start conditions.

The fuel S/S solenoid is just above the area were all the injection lines connect to the pump. It has 2 wires on it, one blue and one black.

Can you be more accurate as to which screws were missing or loose????

Depending on the answer to this, we may be able find your problem.

If you want to rule out the S/S solenoid the quick way, just pull it out carefully, making sure to lift the solenoid up and to the side while grabbing the little spring and rubber tipped metal cylinder in it. If possible stick a small pencil magnet into the hole and see if any metal shavings come out... we hope NOT...

With the spring and metal cylinder left out, reinstall the solenoid and try starting the truck. If it fires up and runs, it's the solenoid and you need a new one. If it runs ok, you'll have to use the manual shutdown lever to stop the motor until you get the solenoid replaced.

Another item to look for is the little rubber tip on the metal cylinder that was inside the solenoid. It is common for the rubber tip to be chipped or damaged as well. That is all it will take to mess up the engines ability to run and/or idle.

In the case of running out of fuel I would theorize that the VE supply pump side of the equation suddenly went dry or very low on pressure then maybe surged when some fuel returned momentarily.

That condition would cause a rapid cycling of the internal pressure/bypass valves causing spike(s) in the internal pressure in both the supply side and high pressure side of the pump. Those types of spikes can damage the solenoid and/or it's components like the rubber tip.





Give that a check and let us know how you make out...



Pastor Bob...

 

[Tejasdge]

Thanks BushWakr,



I E-mailed the info to him to check at lunch today. I'll get back with ya'll on what he finds.



Sorry, forgot to give you some info on the missing screws. This is tough to describe but here goes; They were the two screws above the throttle area on the injector pump, that went from the bottom up furtherest away from the motor. That's the best I can describe it second hand at this point. If you have a better way to reference them let me know and I'll ask him.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Look around in here and see if you can identify them from the pictures... .



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/user_gallery/displayalbum.php?&userid=5168&albumid=453



PB

 

[Tejasdge]

Does this help?

The arrow on the far left is where we think one screw was missing. You can see the top of the hole above the arrow. I've circled the area we think the other one went. It's hard to figure this out over the phone and such, but I hope it helps. Ya'll are great for all your help!



#ad

 

[Tejasdge]

She Started!

First of all, I would like to thank everyone that posted, with a special note of thanks to BushWakr for posting the images to his rig section.



Now for the painful(read embarrassing) details. I finally got my cousin on the phone last night and we started looking at the diagrams BushWakr had put up for us. We identified the location of the screws that my cousin had put in, to the best of our ability, and located the fuel solenoid. Now I digress for a moment to point out that my cousin is in the middle of farming from dawn to dusk and has only had a few minutes to look at the truck here and there. Well at some point late last night he had an inspiration, and recalled me mentioning something about two wires going to the fuel solenoid. This morning he went out and checked and there was only one hooked up. He found the other one and viola, we had ignition. Oo. He figures that he knocked the wire off while changing out the fuel filter.



So now he has a very well fastened portion of the pump due to the additional screws that were or (most likely) were not originally designed into his truck. He also said that the fuel leak stopped with both wires hooked up. The faker outer on this thing for me was the fact that he was getting so much squirting (over the fender) when he was bleeding the injectors and the fuel solenoid was partially disconnected. Go figure.



Thanks again for helping a country boy and a diesel newbie solve what should have been a quick fix.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Bonus !!!!

FYI... those two wire do two different things. One is the trigger voltage to open the solenoid and the other is the "maintainence" signal to hold open while key is on.....

PB