2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission ??911 in driveway, Steering Locked,Not Key Lock

[RJWEST]

Not Quite 911, stuck in Driveway



Started down the Driveway, Could not turn wheel and Brakes not very strong,

But Brake pedal HIGH not much movement...



Tried Yanking, forcing, kicking and swearing ( Dang gum it ! ) to no avail.



Belt is going, Vacuum pump working ( air select works ) Fluid OK



Steering harder than with eng off ( slightly better with a little warm up )

Does not appear to be a key lock problem. .



Everything was fine ( Kinda )until the cold spell (high 20's last few nights )



Feels like Pressure on both sides of steering box ???



I will jack it up and work on it this afternoon. . , unload the wheels and see if steering is free. Any other Suggestions appreciated .



KINDA = I was considering a high pressure pump as The steering did feel a little weak,

I like the old fashion POWER !!!!!! steering ( 2 tiny finger kind ).



Any suggestions on fix( pump/steering Box and New steering Box...





NOTE: I never let the wife drive this truck,,,,,If this happened to her she would be in

the neighbors yard, If on the road, Well; BAD , BAAD , BAD.



In fact, If it happened to me on the road ,I would probably not been able to save it... .

 

[RJWEST]

Follow up:
Left truck in Sun with Hood open, Now 60 degrees... ...

Removed PS Filler cap, Fluid Level OK,

Started truck, No steering, NO Movement of fluid in PS Pump, PUMP INOP ???

Went to get Flaashlight, Look in reservoir, Fluid movement... .

PS Works !!!!

OK, What was wrong, Is it going to Quit while driving !!!!??????

Note: I have had sticky PS on a GM, AT 20 BELOW ZERO, and it would frree up in a few seconds.
BUT, THIS IS FLORIDA, Coldest it's been is 25 Degrees..... What The ... ... ... ... Heck.

 

[B.G. Smith]

Don't know of course but I would guess that the relief valve in the power steering is sticking open. You might try a search on the forum for power steering problems and find something. There was a thread some time back about the relief valve I believe. bg https://www.turbodieselregister.com...2-possible-low-power-steering-assist-fix.html

 

[SSolderitch]

yes as stated above cloged screen in pump at the check valve... . I read that post.

 

[RJWEST]

Thanks, searched yesterday, could not find this post.
This is great,

Questions? My pump is behind the vacuum pump ( I think ):

Do I remove the whole asm. ? or just the Pump Part ?

If I Get a new Pump, is there a high pressure pump available ???

At 90 K I might just change the pump and experiment with the old one...

 

[EricBu12]

RJwest

Found this on another site... looks like you need to remove as a set, then separate as the PS pump is pressed on the VP shaft

This is from a first gen site... don't know if it is the same as a second gen

What happens when your vacuum pump stops working. - Dodge Diesel - Diesel Truck Resource Forums

The link above might have good pictures but I found on AutoZone.com the correct procedures.
AutoZone.com | Vehicle Selection - Year

1. Remove and cap steering pump hoses and vacuum pump vacuum line.
2. Remove the sender unit from engine block and plug hole in block.
3. Remove the serpentine belt, as outlined in the Engine Mechanical Section.
4. Remove and cap the oil feed line from the bottom of the vacuum pump.
5. Remove the lower bolt that attaches the vacuum/steering pump assembly to the engine block. Remove the nut from the steering pump attaching bracket.
6. Remove upper bolt from the pump assembly and remove the assembly.
7. Remove the mounting gasket.
8. Remove the steering pump to vacuum pump bracket attaching nuts.
9. Slide the steering pump from the bracket. Use care not to damage the internal oil seal in the vacuum pump.
10. Remove the two pump body spacers.

To install:

1. Install the two pump body spacers.
2. Rotate the drive gear until the steering pump and vacuum pump drive dogs align. Install the steering pump onto the vacuum pump bracket. Use care to avoid damaging the oil seal in the vacuum pump during installation. The steering pump housing and spacers must mate completely with the vacuum pump bracket.
3. Install the vacuum pump bracket to steering pump nuts and tighten to 18 ft. lbs. (24 Nm).
4. Position new gasket on vacuum pump assembly. Use sealer if necessary to retain the gasket.
5. Align and install the pump assembly on the engine. Ensure the steering pump stud is inserted into the block bracket. Tighten the pump- to-engine block attaching bolts to 57 ft. lbs. (77 Nm).
6. Install the steering pump to attaching bracket nut and tighten to 18 ft. lbs. (24 Nm).
7. Remove plug and install the oil pressure sending unit and electrical connector.
8. Install the oil feed line to the vacuum pump. Tighten the oil line connection to 60 inch lbs. (7 Nm).
9. Install the fluid hoses to the power steering pump. Tighten the pressure fitting at the pump to 23 ft. lbs. (31 Nm).
10. Install and clamp the hose on the vacuum pump.
11. Install the serpentine belt.
12. Fill the reservoir with power steering fluid and perform the “Initial Operation Procedure”, located later in this section.
13. Start the engine and check the operation of the brakes.

 

[RJWEST]

LEAK, Looks Like the PS Pump shaft seal blew out, Leaked all the fluid out overnight.

BUMMER,

OK: 24V Guys, can I get the pump off without removing the vacuum pump... ????

 

[DLausche]

It is easiest to remove them as a set and then put it back on the engine as a set. I would highly recommend you get a vacuum pump oil seal kit from Cummins or Genos as well and replace that while it is out. It's not too hard of a job. I did mine about 6 months back. You should carefully research pumps before you buy one. I found that PSC was highly recommended so that is what I went with. Lots of the local parts store pumps were associated with reman names that had many negative reviews. I got the high output pump too like you are thinking of. It did not make much difference that I can notice and if I knew then what I know now I would have just gone with the standard pump from PSC. You MUST install an oil cooler on the return line if you go with a high output pump.



I can't recall what the pumps cost. Not terribly expensive I think. I have the original pump from my truck sittin on the bench and it worked fine when I took it out. Anyone can have it if they want it. All I'd ask is for the postage cost if anyone is interested.



-Deon

 

[RJWEST]

Thanks, May install a cooler anyway, can't hurt living in Florida.

 

[RJWEST]

MAJOR UPDATE:



Leak Fixed it self !!!!! ???????



RECAP:

PS Fluid had run down onto the Electrical Harness , down to lowest point and than dripped onto the trac Bar.

Ran down the trac Bar to Passenger side attach, than onto cement driveway ,and ran back behind wheel to form a 8 “ puddle. Defiantly PS Fluid.

Thats How I found leak Monday Morning.



I checked fluid level, none on stick, and assumed the reservoir to be empty as no fluid was

dripping from pump... than I cleaned up the mess with eng brite.



Today , I turned truck around, and still had Power Steering, ????

No more leaks, should be empty. Not so, below 'stick' but not empty... .

Ok, I service the reservoir, Only needs 4-5 ozs... ?????? Wasn't empty.

I check underneath, No Drips, Bone dry... . What The...



OK. test drive 8-10 miles, Still Bone Dry... ...



Now I'm perplexed, Could Overpressure push by the PS Pump Seal?

( I thought it looked wet, but it could have come from somewhere else )

Is there a Pressure relief somewhere ?

I did see a spring under the filler cap, would that allow excess pressure to Push out???

( I checked the spring movement, seemed stuck, than freed up )

Or, since there seemed to be a lot more fluid on the ground than I put in,

maybe I over filled it ( Sync, Clear , hard to see ) Would to much fluid and colder weather

cause the Locked up Steering???? ( Nov in Maine was not a problem ).



Oh, well. Plus side, I now have a Vacuum Pump Seal Kit ( UPS door bell as I type ) and

I DID LEARN a lot , so if/when it screws up again I will be ready...



Also, reading the “ Pressure Regulator “ post. Maybe I should Clean The Screen.

Is it Under the Pressure Out Line ?????



AND, Thanks all. I was “ ready” for the job !!!!!

 

[DLausche]

I am willing to bet $5 that there is no leak but that the issue is your nitrogen canister relieving itself. Mine has done this 4 times now and it always leaves a good size puddle in the garage or on the driveway. What happens is the canister somehow leaks and burps pressurized nitrogen into the hydraulic line and thus forcing the fluid to overflow the reservoir at the cap. When this happens you will have a puddle, low fluid, and if you happen to look in the reservoir after it has happened and recently started, you will notice really frothy PS fluid in there.



-Deon

 

[RJWEST]

So, I assume the emergency brake function is lost over time... . As I don't think it can be recharged ...

Wonder how many BURBS it takes???? to be empty...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I am willing to bet $5 that there is no leak but that the issue is your nitrogen canister relieving itself. Mine has done this 4 times now and it always leaves a good size puddle in the garage or on the driveway. What happens is the canister somehow leaks and burps pressurized nitrogen into the hydraulic line and thus forcing the fluid to overflow the reservoir at the cap. When this happens you will have a puddle, low fluid, and if you happen to look in the reservoir after it has happened and recently started, you will notice really frothy PS fluid in there.



-Deon

???



What is the physical connection between the Power Steering and Power Braking system that allows intermingling of fluids/vapors?

 

[DLausche]

So, I assume the emergency brake function is lost over time... . As I don't think it can be recharged ...



Wonder how many BURBS it takes???? to be empty...

Well, not the "emergency brake" , but yes the emergency reserve is lost. Mine has burped (or puked) 4 times now and the emergency reserve appears to still work. I tried braking after turning the engine off only once though.

 

[DLausche]

???



What is the physical connection between the Power Steering and Power Braking system that allows intermingling of fluids/vapors?

The power steering and power brake both run off of the same hydraulic pump. The high pressure from the pump runs to the brake booster assembly. The high pressure supply is split internally there and another high pressure line goes from the brake booster down to the steering gear. Both the brake booster and the steering gear have a low pressure return line back to the PS pump reservoir.



I guess I may have taken for granted that an 02 model would be the same as my 99 is. I do think they are the same but can't be certain. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong here.

 

[B.G. Smith]

The power steering and power brake both run off of the same hydraulic pump. The high pressure from the pump runs to the brake booster assembly. The high pressure supply is split internally there and another high pressure line goes from the brake booster down to the steering gear. Both the brake booster and the steering gear have a low pressure return line back to the PS pump reservoir.



I guess I may have taken for granted that an 02 model would be the same as my 99 is. I do think they are the same but can't be certain. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong here.

Probably the same but certainly similar. And the connection that allows intermingling of fluids/vapor is the accumulator on the power assist brake assy. It contains HP nitrogen or some inert gas and when it leaks gas it goes into the fluid stream. bg