92-97 Ford/12 Valve swap Questions

[NCovey]

I have a problem on my conversion. Here is a link to it.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...ersions/189421-deatails-promised-finally.html

I bought motor mounts from fordcummins.com about a year and a half ago. (I know, I am slow. ) Here is the problem, I set the engine in the truck using the mounts, and it appears to be too far forward. There is approximately 2. 5 inches between the firewall, and the rear valve cover. Where the engine sits now, there is no way the mechanical fan will clear the radiator, which is the factory 4 core diesel radiator from the Ford. You can see the mount bolted to the side of the block in one of the pictures I posted. I called fordcummins.com, and asked them if something was wrong with the set up. Their recommendation was to re-drill the holes to move it back. WRONG. There is not enough room to move it back on the mount or the frame. The other suggestion was to buy the "New and Improved mount", with a previous customer discount. Appreciated, but not enough if I wasted $260 on these mounts.

What I was wondering, would anyone happen to have pictures from their conversion showing the clearance between the the firewall, and the fan and radiator. Also some pictures of how your mounts set would be appreciated. I am wanting to make sure I haven't got something screwed up before I discuss this with them a little more intensely. Thanks, Nicholas

 

[NCovey]

To the top

 

[12V Ford]

Did you bash the firewall lip in? I had to shorten the driveshaft because everything moved back about 3 inches. I had originally used the old mounts until I made my own and I can't remember if I had to drill new holes in the crossmember for them or not. I'm think'n that I had to. If you go to Turbo Diesel Register - New Mexico Chapter and go to the garage, my truck has some pictures there that you can look at. They might help a little and you don't have to be a member to get into the garage.

 

[JCrockett]

I used the same motor mounts you did. My 90 is basically the same as your 94 other than the front fenders/hood/core support is a little different. I have about 3/4" clearance between the top of the rear valve cover and the firewall. I had to "massage" the fire wall a little. The motor mount bushing I used were from a 90 style dodge, the studs are offset in the rubber biscut and you can rotate the biscut to move your engine back where you need it.

I also had to move my radiator a little forward by mounting in on the front side braket on the core support. This gave me just enough room to install my flexalite 290 electric fan with about 1/2" of clearance between the blades and the crank pulley. I also had to trim the fan houseing down a bit to get the room.



I have no idea how those guys at FC expect you to get the stock fan in there. The electric is enough for me here in AK, 80* is a hot day in the summer.



Hope that helps a little. There are some photos in my RR that may help too.



I feel you pain.

 

[NCovey]

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate the response. Those are a couple of good looking trucks. I did massage the firewall, I think it was enough. What I did was, take the air hammer and fold the metal up from the bottom side of the ledge, then pushed the whole thing flat so that it has the same contour as the rest of the firewall. Measuring from the top of the valve cover at a horizontal line to the firewall, I have 2. 5". I used the offset in the 89-93 style Dodge isolators to help me get enough clearance around the oil pan. I figured part of the problem is that the Ford 7. 3L radiator was thicker, so I stuck the '96 Dodge radiator in to check it, and it wouldn't even fit. If I can, I will try to get some better pictures to show how I have things set up, maybe you guys can see if I have something wrong that I am just not seeing. Thanks-Nicholas







P. S. -Happy New Year

 

[NCovey]

Got some pictures taken of the mounts, and the clearance today. See if you guys can see anything that I am overlooking-Nicholas



#ad


#ad


#ad


#ad


#ad


#ad


#ad


#ad


#ad


#ad

 

[Matt S]

While I'm sure you've already thought of this one, can you swap them from side to side to see if that would be the difference? From the picture I can't tell if that would help you out at all.

 

[JCrockett]

Everything looks good in there to me. All I could suggest is to rotate the motor mount biscuts to move that engine back a little. I used the 7. 3 radiator in my truck, had to buy a used core support to make it work along with a new radiator. The 5. 8l radiator I had would have been way too small.



I have about an inch of clearance between my firewall and valve.



How much room do you need to make things work? 1" 2" 4"?

 

[NCovey]

Matt, I looked at that, but they were marked Driver's, and Passenger's. The only difference I could see is the angle at which the rubber mount would sit.



JCrockett, I did rotate the bicuits around, but that was to gain enough clearance between the oil pan and frame. I think if I could get it back another 1. 5", it might work. As it sits now, the clearance on the bottom, and the engine angle is perfect. I don't know if the mounts were just welded up wrong or what. I don't really have anything to compare it to. -Nicholas

 

[JCrockett]

Nicholas, looking closer at your pics I noticed you used the lower holes in the motor mounts, any reason for that? If you use the upper holes on the mount it will raise the engine about 1. 5", then you could rotate your biscuts to move the engine back to where you need it and still have your clearance for your oil pan. I will look and see what holes I used on my mount and take some pics tonight if I remember. I am pretty sure I used the upper holes.

I think that would solve you problem.

 

[NCovey]

Using the lower holes on the passenger side, and the upper holes on the drivers side, was the only way I could get the rubber biscuits to to set at a more natural angle, and still have the proper clearance around the oil pan. When using the lower set of hole in the FC mounts on both sides, the engine set at a weird angle towards the drivers side.

 

[NCovey]

Sorry J, I misunderstood what holes your were talking about. Using the upper holes in the frame wouldn't let the rubber biscuits set right. They were spread apart at the top, and squished on the bottom. It is like they are too far apart to bolt in that way.

 

[JCrockett]

Did you use the existing holes in the frame? In the manuel I got from FC it showed drilling a new 1/2" hole in the frame plates. That is what I did, then rotated the biscuts to make the engine set right.



I don't know what else to tell ya, be better if I could see it in person but I am a little far away up here in Alaska for that:-laf

 

[12V Ford]

Both biscuits should be turned sideways. I see that only one is. I'm pretty sure that the instructions had me drilling a new 1/2" hole a little farther back, on the passenger side for sure, but I can't remember if I did on the driver side. I used those mounts for awhile but after I added the power, the passenger side biscuit would tear out. It looks like the motor could go back a little also. When I did mine, I never used the 7. 3 motor plates and I couldn't figure out how to do the passenger side, so I welded a deal up to fill the big crossmember hole and drilled a new hole where I needed it.

 

[NCovey]

Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate you taking the time to help me figure this out. I did use the factory holes, it would have been nice if they would have mentioned drilling new holes. All they told me when I bought them was that these mounts would allow me to bolt the Cummins into the Ford using the diesel plates, and three days later I got a box with two mounts and a receipt, nothing else.

 

[12V Ford]

There used to be some pictures on the fordcummins website that showed the holes drilled, but I can't find them anymore since they revised the website. I know that their installation manual shows the pictures and is helpful. If I still had mine, I would let you have it.

 

[NCovey]

Thanks, for trying to find them. I do have a question though. At what horsepower level did you start to tear apart the 89-93 rubber mounts?

 

[12V Ford]

I think it started after the 10plate and gsk. I may have had the 370's in there to, but I don't remember. The 1st rubber made it to about 10,000 miles and the next one was going much sooner.

 

[NCovey]

So I guess I should probably go ahead and up grade while it is more accessible. Thanks, 12V-Nicholas

 

[12V Ford]

I would use something else besides that type. I'm not sure if anyone else has had success on those mounts with higher HP. When I talked to Fordcummins about this a few years ago, they said that it was happening to other trucks as well.