'93 2WD... Any way to raise the front end up?

[Motorhead]

A client of mine has a real cherry '93 2wd and wanted to know if there is a way to put spring spacers or a little longer coil spring in to level up the front of the truck.
Any off the shelf solutions??

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

In short yes try Oregon Auto Spring Service, Inc at 1-800-234-9611 - (see web site below) They have spacers that are made out of cast aluminum. They've got them in 3 different sizes. I've got P/Ns 1903, 1905 and 1906 and are listed as spacers. If you bought all 3 sizes it should cost less than $100. 00 for all 3 sizes.



www.spring-man.com.



They will fit my D250. The D350 has slightly larger springs so make sure you let them know which it is.



I would also recomend changing the springs at the same time as these are molded to fit between the spring bottom and the lower "A" arm. I've also got specs. on all MOOG springs if you need them.



Bob

 

[cerberusiam]

Just a set of Moog HD springs will get the height wanted. How much lift will depend on how sagged the originals are.

 

[mysteryman]

This subject is rather serious. It is VARY important that everyone clearly understand the problems and solutions with the 2wd front suspension to avoid future catastrophes ... The main problem is that the front suspension on our trucks is NOT really heavy enough to support the excessively heavy Cummins engine. I recall that from 89 to 93 there were about 17 revisions that we made to the frame and front suspension to help keep them together. Basically the front suspension was first designed and used in the 1972 model year.

There were a few significant changes made for the 73 model year to reduce the manufacturing and assemble costs

Other than that there were no readily visible changes made to 3/4 or 1 ton front suspension till it ended in 93.

Some of the not so visible changes that were made were . 1) reinforcement gussets were welded around the uppet control arm bushings. . 2) the gauge if the steel and carbon content were changed 3) the upper control arm bushings had the rubber compound changed due to premature failure. 4) the pivot pins and bushings in the drag link (Moog DS1173) were redesigned 4 times. 5) the idler arm bushing was redesigned. 6) the coil spring cushions were redesigned. 7) the lower control arms had 4 revisions. Plus several more.



The issue here is why do these 2wd trucks sag in the front... .

1) The main reason is because the black rubber coil spring cushions crush down to nothing. THERE WERE 3 DIFFERENT THICKNESS cushions. Depending on which ones were in you truck will determine how much it will drop.

Normally you will lose 1. 5 to 3. 5 inches of ride height. Bob is correct on how to take care of the problem. Cast aluminum spacers is the best and least expensive way. They are made by Specialty Products Company . The part #'s are as follows 1903, 1905, 1906 Multiply the thickness of the spacer times 2. 5" to figure the amount of lift you will get. Speciality products as far as I know does not sell retail. I do have a commercial account with them . I always have them on my shelf . Those that can not find them else where can buy them from me if they like. . DO NOT USE ANY OF THE OTHER TYPES OF SPRING SPACERS. Most other types do not work well at all and will damage the suspension.

1A) The next way is to replace the cushions with Dodge part # 4322 629 . That is the thicker one and will put the truck up where it should be. The trouble is they will crush out again in a few years. They are cheap however.



2) Coil springs. This is vary important !!! DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT THE PARTS CATALOGS LIST . All of the aftermarket suspension manufactures catalogs have listings for "super heavy duty springs" Do NOT BUY THEM ! THEY WILL DESTROY YOUR FRONT END!!! GMC/Chevy coil springs have a near exact diameter a ours do. They will fit but the spring rate is way too high ! They will crush your upper control arm bushing out in a a few short months. They will also cause the control arms to bend ! All those heavy duty / super heavy duty springs they list are actually Chevy springs. The springs that came with our trucks rarely sag vary much. The problem is what I mentioned above. It is the problem 99% of the time. But If you feel that you just have to replace them. THE CORRECT AND ONLY PART # TO USE IS MOOG # 7226

They are slightly longer than the originals so you do not have to use the upper rubber cushions. I do recommend globbing some WATER PROOF GREASE ON THE TOP OF THE SPRING WHERE IT MEETS THE FRAME. iF YOU DO NOT IT MAY SQUEAK AND CREAK A BIT. I also highly recommend to only buy Moog suspension parts ! they are about the only quality part left out there. Our front ends need all the help they can get !!!!!!!!!!!!!!



3) The 91. 5/92/93 diesel trucks have a different durometer rubber in the upper and lower control arm bushings than did the gas trucks. This is not reflected in the factory parts manuals nor until recently was it in the aftermarket catalogs. . Moog many years ago did offer the uppers but did discontinued them about 10 years ago. Thanks to yours truly here Moog now once again offers them. . I know a few of the engineers over at Moog and convinced them make them again. I am surprised that I was able to do so. They are not exact a high sales volume part ! The respective part #'s are K7189 for the uppers and K7192 for the lowers... .



I plan on doing a video in the near future on how to rebuild the front ends . I will post it on youtube or if they will let me here on this site I could write a whole book on the front suspension in our trucks. THE ABOVE INFORMATION

is a summery of the subject . I only mentioned what a guy really needs to know to solve his sagging problems. If you follow the instructions I gave your problems will be cost effectively solved and you should have little if any trouble in the future Good luck and stay tuned... /// MM

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

Thanks mystmeryman for the info. It explains why it seems as if the height gained does not last all that long (3 to 6 months). When I did my first spring change I wanted to change the isolators but could not find them. I had them done the second time when I needed new upper and lower ball joints and requested new isolators but never got them. My first set were Mopar and the second set were MOOG In the mean time I located a new pair of isolators and found someone recommended by a friend, who has a shop that does only frame and suspension work. He comes highly recommended and does stand behind his work.



Bob

 

[HHhuntitall]

Now the question I have is how much heavier is the Cummins than the old RB engines? IIRC, the old 440 was around 600-650 with the cast iron cylinder heads..... that may be with alternator and accessories... . The Cummins weighs in around 900, right? Dry weight. Does that 300 lbs make that much of a difference? And what about the long wheel based (161") Cab and chassis? Did they have the same coil springs? I had an old 91 that never sagged, yet I've got a '93 that's sagged badly... The springs on the '93 were collapsed considerably more than the '91, despite less miles and less weight carried... . Just a fluke spring set?



Forgive my curiosity, but since you know, please educate me. I love to learn, especially about these old trucks... ...



FWIW, I've welded up many of the center crossmembers and frames surrounding the upper spring perch... ... I've always thought that one of the weak links on the 2wd trucks, even the gassers. I used to have a 73 CC frame(w '84cab ) that was skirted and boxed with 1/4" 3x3 angle iron to keep my 413 from ripping the frame in half hauling hay..... Mmmmm, I loved the torque that thing made... . :-laf

 

[cerberusiam]

The 440 actually weighed in a little less than 600 lbs while the Cummins tips the scales at slightly over 1100 lbs with the needed accessories. The actual difference is closer to 500-550 lbs wet, THAT hammered the living tar out of the front ends on rough roads. There really is no fix for beating them to death on rough gravel roads. I am thinking an F450 I beam wight be the best upgrade available.

As for the springs, I have a set of 7226s Moog super duty springs I have used in 2 different trucks with several 100k combined. On a sagged spring that was 3" of lift and a decent ride when installed. The one thing we found was the stock shocks are totally inadequate, even the best that be bought. We added a dual shock setup that uses a 4x4 shock to alleviate the problems. That worked quite well to tame the bounce from the heavier springs and give a pretty decent ride.

 

[mysteryman]

Try Koni shocks. I worked with them back in the 80's developing shocks for the fleet vehicles. We did develop a shock for the Cummins trucks. It worked well and only needed 1 per side. I have Koni's on 4 of my trucks . They work fine and are guaranteed for life. Sadly enough the Koni project was a success in the field but a flop in the sales dept.

As for rough roads..... Going fast down pot holed gravel roads daily will kill the 2wd front suspension... I personally do not drive on bad roads vary often. If I do I drive vary slowly ! I don' like doing front end work all that much.

We actually did make a prototype using a rockwell I beam and leaf springs. The idea was scraped due to cost.

We used the leaf springs and hangers out of a 4x4 and the same I beam that Ford was using in their super duty's.

Our springs are farther apart than Fords. So if you get one out of a Ford you will have to redrill the center bolt and the u bolt holes. The pads on the I beam are more than wide enough. The I beam was a universal. It was used in many other different make and models of trucks around the world. . For those that wish to try this b sure to get an I beam that has 8 stud hubs. Many had 10 studs. If anyone has interest . I will look up the engineering data on the Koni shocks and get a quote on getting them made. They are going to be expensive though. I have never seen one fail yet. My 1980 Ply Gran Fury over 400K on one set. They were still in good working condition when the car was scrapped. I still have the shocks on the shelf in the shop. I removed them right before it went to the crusher. . ///MM

The 440 actually weighed in a little less than 600 lbs while the Cummins tips the scales at slightly over 1100 lbs with the needed accessories. The actual difference is closer to 500-550 lbs wet, THAT hammered the living tar out of the front ends on rough roads. There really is no fix for beating them to death on rough gravel roads. I am thinking an F450 I beam wight be the best upgrade available.



As for the springs, I have a set of 7226s Moog super duty springs I have used in 2 different trucks with several 100k combined. On a sagged spring that was 3" of lift and a decent ride when installed. The one thing we found was the stock shocks are totally inadequate, even the best that be bought. We added a dual shock setup that uses a 4x4 shock to alleviate the problems. That worked quite well to tame the bounce from the heavier springs and give a pretty decent ride.

 

[NIsaacs]

[QUOTE=mysteryman;2320374

We actually did make a prototype using a rockwell I beam and leaf springs. The idea was scraped due to cost.

We used the leaf springs and hangers out of a 4x4 and the same I beam that Ford was using in their super duty's.

Our springs are farther apart than Fords. So if you get one out of a Ford you will have to redrill the center bolt and the u bolt holes. The pads on the I beam are more than wide enough. The I beam was a universal. It was used in many other different make and models of trucks around the world. . For those that wish to try this b sure to get an I beam that has 8 stud hubs. Many had 10 studs.



MM,

Do you know anything about the older Dodge cab/chassie I-beam front axles, such as the D-300 style? It has been such a long time since I installed one in my '74 Ford in sig. that I can't remember the specifics. It seems like an okay axle strength wise but drives nasty, wanders all over. I used one out of a small class A, 1976 Dodge Motorhome with the standard 8 bolt 17. 5 wheels. I saw an article in Trailer Life or Motorhome magazine years ago where a guy wrote in about the wild ride his Dodge motorhome gives him. The editors wrote back and said that, that axle was never any good and could only suggest good radial tires. I use the Bridgestone 10 ply 8x17. 5. I wonder if I went to the 16 ply tires in that size, trailers use?



When I installed the Cummins in the Ford, the original coil spring, twin I-beam front axles sagged bad so I installed new springs, didn't help. Thats when I went with the Dodge axle. I used everything, including steering box, leaf springs, shock mounts, sway bar and camber shims. Right now I have the shims out and have the springs bolted flush to the axle. If I remember right, it is an "Elliott (sp) type" v/s the traditional "reverse elliott type"?? The kingpin wishbone is on the axle rather than the spindle, if that makes sense. I think it is rated 5,000 lbs and packs the Cummins just fine, also rides great. You just have to always "drive" it. I have tried it with the shims, without shims and even made longer adjustable shackles and nothing works.



I don't drive it much anymore, so it really is not an issue, however if you have a simple fix or several, I would be glad for the help. Thanks!



Nick

 

[MMiller]

Do I need to be worried about the front suspension on the 2wd 85 crew cab dually I have that has a Cummins/518 combo put in it? The front has been lowered by the previous owner and aligned for the drop. I like how it currently sits, considering dropping the rear some to match better. It drives quite well and the tires are wearing fine.



Michael

 

[Rattler]

My son and a freind put some of those supper heavy springs under the front of a 92 club cab 2 wheel drive. That truck has the nasty habit of blowing a ball joint out on occasion.

 

[mysteryman]

Hi Nick.

Yes I remember that axle you speak of. It was kind of a dud. It did not have enough King pin angle. It had too much positive camber . It often had too little positive caster. These things caused it to handle like a wet fish out of water.

You can bend the I beam to fix the camber. Any big truck spring shop should have the I beam bender. Yo can put wedge blocks between the spring and the I beam. Tip the top of the knuckle towards the rear of the truck to get positive caster. Try for 2. 5 to 4 degrees + . Set toe to zero to 1/16 " in. Now here is the real problem. King pin angle is built into the knuckle. You would have to MAKE a whole new knuckle to fix that... . So go find you an early Ford super duty and rob that axle. It is a rockwell which is what most of the big riggs use. Good luck

 

[mysteryman]

Go get yourself some Moog 2776 springs and your problems will be over !!!!!!!!!!

My son and a freind put some of those supper heavy springs under the front of a 92 club cab 2 wheel drive. That truck has the nasty habit of blowing a ball joint out on occasion.

 

[NIsaacs]

Hi Nick.
Yes I remember that axle you speak of. It was kind of a dud. So go find you an early Ford super duty and rob that axle. It is a rockwell which is what most of the big riggs use. Good luck

Thanks MM,

Yup, it's a dud:-laf When I changed it out (1994) I didn't have much luck finding a good Rockwell. I did almost buy one out of an older late 60's model IHC 1 ton HD cab chassie with factory 5 bolt bud's in 19. 5 but it had drum brakes, the only reason I passed. I kind of wished later that I had not. With all the car crushing in the past 15 years it is hard to find old goodies. I might check and see if the wrecking yard still has it.

PS: Another dumb issue on the Dodge axle is that the hub is bolt centric but it used the built-in flat washer style lug nuts. So I carry some tappered nuts to center the wheel then slap the heavy dutys ones on.

Nick

 

[Ncostello]

Great info! Mine is sagging and I had HD springs in mind. Glad to have this information.

 

[Clayboy]

I'm sagging and I need to rebuild my front... now for my truck. I do want to rebuild my front end, so the info on the MOOG springs is very timely. Ditto on MM comments about MOOG, well worth the cost since they are still quality made. I have already purchased a Borgeson steering shaft and plan on new ball joints as well. I essentially want to tighten up my steering on my 91. 5 to better than new, although I really don't have that much play, just some vagueness to the steering. Any recommendations/lessons for what I should consider replacing (and with what (part numbers are very much appreciated)) - especially interested in any feedback in regards to rubber components (like bushings). Thank you!

Clayboy

 

[Brybry Mcneil]

This subject is rather serious. It is VARY important that everyone clearly understand the problems and solutions with the 2wd front suspension to avoid future catastrophes ... The main problem is that the front suspension on our trucks is NOT really heavy enough to support the excessively heavy Cummins engine. I recall that from 89 to 93 there were about 17 revisions that we made to the frame and front suspension to help keep them together. Basically the front suspension was first designed and used in the 1972 model year.

There were a few significant changes made for the 73 model year to reduce the manufacturing and assemble costs

Other than that there were no readily visible changes made to 3/4 or 1 ton front suspension till it ended in 93.

Some of the not so visible changes that were made were . 1) reinforcement gussets were welded around the uppet control arm bushings. . 2) the gauge if the steel and carbon content were changed 3) the upper control arm bushings had the rubber compound changed due to premature failure. 4) the pivot pins and bushings in the drag link (Moog DS1173) were redesigned 4 times. 5) the idler arm bushing was redesigned. 6) the coil spring cushions were redesigned. 7) the lower control arms had 4 revisions. Plus several more.



The issue here is why do these 2wd trucks sag in the front... .

1) The main reason is because the black rubber coil spring cushions crush down to nothing. THERE WERE 3 DIFFERENT THICKNESS cushions. Depending on which ones were in you truck will determine how much it will drop.

Normally you will lose 1. 5 to 3. 5 inches of ride height. Bob is correct on how to take care of the problem. Cast aluminum spacers is the best and least expensive way. They are made by Specialty Products Company . The part #'s are as follows 1903, 1905, 1906 Multiply the thickness of the spacer times 2. 5" to figure the amount of lift you will get. Speciality products as far as I know does not sell retail. I do have a commercial account with them . I always have them on my shelf . Those that can not find them else where can buy them from me if they like. . DO NOT USE ANY OF THE OTHER TYPES OF SPRING SPACERS. Most other types do not work well at all and will damage the suspension.

1A) The next way is to replace the cushions with Dodge part # 4322 629 . That is the thicker one and will put the truck up where it should be. The trouble is they will crush out again in a few years. They are cheap however.



2) Coil springs. This is vary important !!! DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT THE PARTS CATALOGS LIST . All of the aftermarket suspension manufactures catalogs have listings for "super heavy duty springs" Do NOT BUY THEM ! THEY WILL DESTROY YOUR FRONT END!!! GMC/Chevy coil springs have a near exact diameter a ours do. They will fit but the spring rate is way too high ! They will crush your upper control arm bushing out in a a few short months. They will also cause the control arms to bend ! All those heavy duty / super heavy duty springs they list are actually Chevy springs. The springs that came with our trucks rarely sag vary much. The problem is what I mentioned above. It is the problem 99% of the time. But If you feel that you just have to replace them. THE CORRECT AND ONLY PART # TO USE IS MOOG # 7226

They are slightly longer than the originals so you do not have to use the upper rubber cushions. I do recommend globbing some WATER PROOF GREASE ON THE TOP OF THE SPRING WHERE IT MEETS THE FRAME. iF YOU DO NOT IT MAY SQUEAK AND CREAK A BIT. I also highly recommend to only buy Moog suspension parts ! they are about the only quality part left out there. Our front ends need all the help they can get !!!!!!!!!!!!!!



3) The 91. 5/92/93 diesel trucks have a different durometer rubber in the upper and lower control arm bushings than did the gas trucks. This is not reflected in the factory parts manuals nor until recently was it in the aftermarket catalogs. . Moog many years ago did offer the uppers but did discontinued them about 10 years ago. Thanks to yours truly here Moog now once again offers them. . I know a few of the engineers over at Moog and convinced them make them again. I am surprised that I was able to do so. They are not exact a high sales volume part ! The respective part #'s are K7189 for the uppers and K7192 for the lowers... .



I plan on doing a video in the near future on how to rebuild the front ends . I will post it on youtube or if they will let me here on this site I could write a whole book on the front suspension in our trucks. THE ABOVE INFORMATION

is a summery of the subject . I only mentioned what a guy really needs to know to solve his sagging problems. If you follow the instructions I gave your problems will be cost effectively solved and you should have little if any trouble in the future Good luck and stay tuned... /// MM

What coils do I need on my 1993 d350 dually

 

[avvblanc01]

So just to confirm, the MOOG 7226S springs should or should not be installed in my D350? I have a set sitting on the shelf ready to go on the truck.

 

[HHhuntitall]

So just to confirm, the MOOG 7226S springs should or should not be installed in my D350? I have a set sitting on the shelf ready to go on the truck.

That is correct. But the most important aspect of replacing the springs is to replace the rubber bushings which rest on top of the springs. Using Aluminum is more durable, buy may make noise, the rubber will sag with time again, but will ride with a little less noise. And speaking of noise, don't miss the note on using a slight amount of waterproof grease on the rubber bushings. It helps keep the squeak away.

 

[cerberusiam]

I have used the 7226S springs with good luck in several trucks. They were originally source in the Dodge MH conversions with gas engines so they are a bit heavier and longer. Replacing upper control arm bushings is a lot easier than dealing with springs bottoming out and the poor ride of collapsed springs. If the springs are sagging they are shot. There is nothing on the front end that is heavy enough for the installed engine and hard usage, you pick the battles you can win and fix the rest as needed.