Archived 94 12v With Issues (2.39M Video Included)

[DieselMinded]

1994 12V Issues

Same problem cant find anyone who actually knows half about the Cummins then what they say they know.



Been to 5 Diesel Mechanics

3 Verified

Each had an idea so we did it and so far its not changed . here's what we have done so far... ...



-$400 375 Horse injectors (NEW)

-New Fuel Return Valve

-New Fuel Filter

-Cleaned the Sediment Screen (Just Now. Not sure why Nobody Has ever brought that thing up but Im sure it could be a cure for alot of similar issues just not this particular one. )

-Added a Holly Pump(Against Tdr Wishes)

-Had the fuel pressure checked (its in the green)

-Removed The Holly Pump (as Tdr Wished)

-Had Fuel Pressure Checked Again (Its in the Green)



Some Issues I know About .



1. NO ANDRIOD !

2. NO FUEL PLATE !

3. The Fuel Shut Off plunger fell out one day and we just poaked it back in planning on doing the MOD that was in the last issue of TDR Mag.



But I know of many trucks running W/O the Plate and Andriod and they dont have this problem ... However Were in the process of Replacing the Missing Parts



(JUST PUT A WHOLE NEW AFC HOUSING ON AND NO CHANGE)



I have uploaded a Dail-Up friendly Video Of the problem you will be able to tell exacty what the Issues are ... . turn your volume up.



I know somebody out there has Delt with this before ... . Please Lend the Solution.



Here's a Link to the Video It is a Very Small File but Includes alot of Information. I have uploaded it to the Web with Dial up (HAD TO KEEP SHRINKING THE FILE) so you guys shouldnt have any problems with your connection speed incase there is a dail-upper out there who has had this issue.



HERE IT IS





You will See A Fluttering At 1000 - 1300 Rpm (Making the truck Shake Real Bad) Then it clears up and runs perfect . . then you will see it runs smooth to up past 2300 Rpm but with quick bats at the throtle it cackels and blows alot of white smoke



... this is about the 5th TDR thread I have started and I have heard every thing from its Normal to DV's to O'rings and on and on ... ... I kind of blame it on my self for not Supplying Enough Info to Properly Dianosis the Problem. With the Video Footage ITs Clear whats wrong I just dont know what to do to fix it?



Com'mon Pro's and Old Timers Where You At



The Million Dollar Question



Thanks



DM

 

[bighammer]

Timing gear slipped?

 

[Joe G.]

Has anyone pulled the injection pump and checked it on a pump calibration machine?

 

[DieselMinded]

Contestant 1 - Why would it only be messed up at a certian RPM then smooth off?



Contestant 2 - Negitive $450 to get pump Ballanced/timed/flowed ... . would really like to know if thats the problem before sinking anymore $$$ into it.



Thanks guys ... . any other Opinions



DM

 

[Joe G.]

You are going to have to spend some money. You can't just throw rocks at it and hope you hit the problem.

 

[DieselMinded]

We have a Loaner Pump to swap parts till we get the right one then we can get a new WHATEVER ... .....



But Everyone says it something diffrent So we started chaging everything and $$$ is running out and the truck still is not right .....



These are Professional Diesel and CTD mechainics we consulted with .



How could it be that in all the world we have the first 12V Cummins with this problem?



Somebody Has got to have a solution At least in the direction of the right Part .



Pump may be on its way to JR if we attempt all the other fixes and its still not right ... . we would hate to do that ... . and being that its fine at diffrent RPM's kind of makes you think its no big deal.



Could it be a Delivery Valve ... . thats something we can do our self. .



Could the governer springs be streached .



Could it really be timing ... ... . We have priced it and got $100 off a Guy and $50 off another.



This truck has been tamped with ... ALOT ... not positive on everything thats been done ... learning as we go.



Thanks For your Guys Help



DM

 

[Joe G.]

If you don't have a known good injection pump you are just blundering around in the dark banging on things. Almost everyone who has reported a problem on these forums has a known good pump so someone can suggest something to solve it. I don't have a clue as to what might be causeing your crazy symptoms and I don't think anyone else does either. Everyone can make a more or less informed guess, but unless you do some testing you are just throwing money at guesses. Not very cost effective.

 

[DieselMinded]

I know if it was a normal issue Somebody would of nailed it by now ... evidently its not ... so to JR's the pump will go ... .



always willing to do what I can with out spending lots of $$



Like DV's

Govener Springs

Timing



If there is a possibillity that any of these will fix it Im all for it ..... Is there????



But when it comes right down to it We may just be Hosed . .



Thanks

DM

 

[DieselMinded]

its important to know that towards the end of the video when it cackles Im flooring it real quick I do it twice to show you what it does..... I didnt accel. smooth all the way up to 3G



NOTE: KDP went killer at one point in time ... I can see Form a gasket on the front case ... . could they of messed up rebuilding the front end after it was distroyed



DM

 

[Jim Fulmer]

The first part of the vid at about 1200 is Gov spring bounce... ... ... back the AFC to about the middle as you shouldn't need it that far forward to bottom the arm out if it's setup right... ..... it's confused.



The upper part is either Gov springs or DV's but I couldn't nail it down with out it being here... ..... easy fix if it was here... ... sorry!



Jim

 

[GAmes]

You mention the KDP. Have you removed the front cover and checked for damage?

 

[DieselMinded]

AlRight !!!



Jim will do ... . Govener Springs first



Our AFC dont have a Aneriod and truck dont have a fuel plate so how do I adjust the Govener Springs ??



Has a Set of DVs ever went bad before ??? They dont look like a part that would fail.



Would it be hard to change the Govener Springs??



Thanks



GAmes. ,, Its been tore apart and lets just say JB. Weld and Permatex. .



DM

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Back to Basics?



I was told the small 160 hp pumps won't support an aggressive injector without a DV change. The low rpm stumble is a sign.

 

[Mundgyver]

Question please. Have you divided the problem in half? You know you have good fuel pressure as I read your posting. So that takes care of the supply side. It looks like you are concerned with the VP but are uneasy about sinking money into it. This I understand as they are very spendy. My suggestion is this. Could this be a problem with the upper end of the motor such as an injector or piston. Would it not be to your benifit to pull the injectors and the head and do an inspection of the top end. All this would cost would be a gasket and some time. I am thinking of a problem with a piston. If the top end looks ok and all the injectors are fine and nothing is wrong with any of the pistons, then the only thing left would be your VP. Food for thought is all we are thinking here.

 

[Joe G.]

It's a '94.

 

[DieselMinded]

P7100 Pump



I am at my wits end so I called in the big dogs and sent Emails to all the big diesel shops ... ...



And I have a REPLY ... . ON SUNDAY. .



www.SMOKINDIESEL.COM



Mr. Douglas Conrad Wrote



Chad,



Here is something to try. You will need help for this.

Get the truck running at the RPM where the problem is occuring. Start

cracking injector lines one at a time. We are looking for the injector that

DOES NOT CHANGE the sound of the truck. This will tell us which cylinder if

any is acting up. Next thing to do is to remove the delivery valves, and bar

the engine. All plungers should move equally. Also, with the fuel shuit off

solenoid in the run posisition, actuate the throttle to make sure all of the

plungers move back and forth. Look for debris, and clean if necessary. We

just had one in here with a craked DV shim. Re-install all of the DV's, and

start the truck with the Shut off solenoid removed, and the shut off arm

being held up manually. The accuator may not be coming up far enough, and

the solenoid may need adjusted. If none of this works, I would then remove

nad check the governor springs for broken, worn springs. Readjust so both

studs have equal protrustion. Try again. If none of this works, I would

remove the pump, and take it to a qualified injection shop, or send it to us

to be bench tested.

I think your problem is definatley in the pump, but it could be from many

places. I will make some calls and check with you on Tiesday to see how it's

going.



Thanks,

Doug





Were going to give it a try and see what happens



DM

 

[DieselMinded]

Got another Email



This one from - DieselWorld



How many miles on truck?



Unfortunately impossible to diagnosis via a video. There are lots of

possibilities to what it is. A methodical elimination of each item or

system should be done, to isolate the problem. My gut feeling is the

injection pump and/or fuel delivery is not right. Beyond that I don't know

or could only guess.





Thanks.





Now back to SmokinDiesels Reply HOW DO I BAR THE ENGINE???



Im working on getting the DV tool.



DM

 

[DieselMinded]

Back to Basics?



I was told the small 160 hp pumps won't support an aggressive injector without a DV change. The low rpm stumble is a sign.

I have been told that also..... from the guy that said this problem was normal and from local EEP Guru's



The 375 Horse injectors we put in are STOCK POP OFF AND FLOW (something like that)... they are not big ol' injectors.



DM







So far ... ... . other options other than sending the pump away. .



- DV valves

- DV Shims

- GOV Springs



Were on it



Thanks For all the help Guys





Personally I think it the GOV Springs ... . Sence there is no aneriod or fuel plate and i think the GOV screw is probly turned all the way ... . when the arm passes threw the AFC chamber it streches the GOV spring and after so long the Spring is junk... . in the spare pump the ARM inside the AFC chamber is stiff and moves around smoothly ... but on the truck its kind of loose and sloppy fealling . .



Well see what happens



Anyone have a set of DV around for cheap?

Shims?

AFC ??we cant use the loaner parts for good its just to see what the problem is



we also need a fuel plate and aneriod



Where is the best place to get a GOVENER SPRING KIT ???



DM

 

[bmoeller]

The 160 pumps are prone to stumbling with big injectors. Need 181 DV. I suspect the pump needs to have the timing advanced. Retarded timing can cause the stumbling on the top-end, no load. The pump may need to be benched tested.



Have you replaced the rubber fuel lines? My truck runs MUCH smoother, since I replaced them. Starts a little easier. No longer dies if I goose the throttle, then letting off quickly.



From your vid, your truck runs the best from 1300-2200. Can hear it start to flutter from 2200, up.



http://piersdiesel.com/Faq.htm

 

[DieselMinded]

Can hear it start to flutter from 2200, up.

No. it runs perfect from 1500 and all the way ... . but once its past 2100 and you punch the throtle it will cackle and blow white smoke. .



Had a $th of July Shin-Dig here tonight so we never messed with trucks today..... First step is finding some GOV springs and finding out how to change them . We will also do what Mr. Conrad Suggested. .



DM