'94 difficulty getting pushrods back in correctly in #6 cylinder

[raxley]

I replaced my valve springs in my 1994 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel (automatic trans) and I am having problems getting the pushrods and lifter assembly back in and valve clearances set. There seem to be two places that (at least the intake pushrod) the pushrod wants to seat on the cam or lifter or whatever is down there. The engine is at TDC at #1 (pin in at fuel pump) and I'm on #6. I tried to move the engine clockwise 120 degrees after I did clearances at #1, but I moved it back to TDC at #1 again It's very difficult to tell how vertical they are or centered-you obviously cannot get your head back there. I thought I had it in the right place (seems the intake pushrod is the one that's giving me problems) but when I put the valve assembly back on and torqued it down, there was no play at all to set clearance. One way to seat the pushrod gives me more play, but like I said it didn't have any clearance to set the lash even when the adjustment on the valve assembly was backed off all the way.
Is there a 'cup' down there, or how does the pushrod fit in? Maybe I should remove #5 assembly to see better.
Any help appreciated.
I'm sure #1 valve assembly is OK. Maybe I will take measurements of how high the pushrods stick up at #1 at TDC and then move the engine clockwise 120 degrees and see if I can set the pushrods to get the same height at #6.

 

[raxley]

Yeah, I think that worked. The pushrods seem to fit in there a couple of different ways, and of course it's difficult to tell the good positioning from the bad from the 'verticalness' of the rods because you can't see very well. However, I now have the pushrods sticking above the head surface the same when #1 is TDC AND #6 is TDC, I made a short piece of wood and marked it.
I'll let you know if I made a mess of it or not. I have a hard time doing stuff like this the first time if I don't have experienced help!

 

[raxley]

I wonder if something fell down there? It's the only thing I can think of at this point. I will know when it's right (marked stick) but I can't see down there. That damned fiberglass maybe?

 

[raxley]

I'm comparing #1 (where I can see down to where there is a hole) and #6 intake pushrod tube hole. It seems to be a little more than 1/8" up to 1/4" difference. It feels a little differently when you carefully withdraw the pushrods from #6 and #1. There is a more 'sucking' feel to #1, like the pushrod goes in further. I tried to stick a aluminum tube down there and hooked it up to a air conditioning pump, and if it helped, it didn't do much. I guess I will just keep at it. I also could stick the tube down there and hit it with compressed air too.
I plugged up both pushrod holes with rags while I changed the springs too. Single pieces of rag, and I got them out. Besides what I am doing any ideas?

 

[raxley]

No luck at all. The pushrod will not go down in the hole deep enough so that when I tighten the head bolt, it will impinge on the pushrod while tightening. Before I get it tightened down, there is no lash at all in the intake valve. The exhaust has 'miles' to take up, I wonder why there is so much difference in the amount of possible lash between the two pushrods? They are exactly the same length.
I've sucked with vac pump while shoving a slightly smaller tube than the pushrod down into the lifter, I've done it for ages. It should have gone right to the blockage and I would think would loosen it up somewhat. I then put in compressed air and blew into it. It doesn't change a bit. Seems like whatever it is (unless it's something else I'm missing) should have been knocked loose. When I'm sucking with vacuum pump, I can feel (I guess it's the lifter) raise up 3/8" of a inch before disconnecting and dropping down
I need about 1/4" more. I'm really wondering what could be going on.

 

[Timd32]

We rebuilt a big cam 355 in school years ago, when we were done we were short one jake brake pin that sat on top of the rocker box, we looked for a few hours, took the oil pan down drained everything. Pulled hands fulls of silicone sealant out of that pan, these things got torn down every 2 weeks. Never found it. Teacher said if you think its good reassemble and move on.

We cranked the engine it made maybe a 1/2 crank and locked solid. Think it was a 5' turning tool we could not move that engine. One of the kids on our team I will say purposly put it down the cylinder. It wedged between the piston and the head, we pulled the piston assy, took it to the bench grinder cleaned it up, reassembled and got it running, the next class got to replace the piston and the sort.

If you think or know something is wrong it most likely is. Trust yout gut and double check what you have done.

Not sure why were the push rods were out?

 

[Timd32]

Have you gone back over the articles in "The Perfect Collection" page 10 starts the section on valve adjustment.

Its covers of all sorts of various methods.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/the-perfect-collection.263571/

Not sure if any of my pics would help you out been a few years since I did mine. I noticed on Quickserve the intake and exhaust rocker are different, did you take all the parts and keep them together when removed?

 

[GAmes]

Help me out here. You have #1 and #6 at TDC with the cam timing pin in? You can not adjust either of the valves on the #6 while it is in the exhaust stroke. Refer to the FSM for valve lash adjustment procedure. In the '96 manual it is page 9-209

 

[raxley]

I thought that if you could set lash on #1 (both valves) at TDC, then if you turned the engine 120 degrees to get TDC for #6, you could adjust lash on both of those valves and so on.
Evidently I know less than I thought of what is going on in the engine.
It's raining now, or I would finish.
Thanks for getting me back on track!!

 

[Timd32]

Yeah read up on those techniques in the perfect collection including the FSM, it actually has a pretty easy method in there using the companion method as well which works out.

I always wind up rotating thru a few times and rechecking stuff. Once these are set right doubt you will ever have to check them again. I swear mine were never done in 205k miles and I did them and they were really close.

Also you can use one feeler gauge size smaller and then larger method on the setting of these, that make life easier so you are not guessing at the feel of the drag if you dont do alot of this.

You really will make a mess quickly if its not assembled correctly.

 

[Bob4x4]

When the pushrod is in the lifter correctly you can feel it.When you lift the pushrod very slightly it will also lift the lifter then the lifter will drop if you continue to lift

 

[raxley]

I could definitely feel that lifter stay on the pushrod for a moment until it came off and clicked.
I finished up #6 cylinder pushrods and turned the engine over 360 degrees as the service manual said to set lash on that cylinder. It started up and runs fine although I only have 60# springs in cylinder #1 and #6. That's a relief. Thanks for getting me back on track! It's supposed to rain for several more days and I won't be able to finish installing the 60# springs in the other 4 cylinders until it stops.

 

[GAmes]

The good news is you have climbed the steepest part of the learning curve, the rest should be a snap. Remember, if you do the piston at it's compression stroke you only need to check the lash. Chances are it is still in spec after retorquing the head bolt.

 

[raxley]

I have another question. For replacing the valve springs instructions for my Tork spring tool say to find TDC for #1 (and I checked it was correct with the plastic timing pin by clicking it in) for the next set of springs it says to turn the engine over 360 degrees. Now I think it is important which way it is turned, correct? If I turn it counterclockwise I would NOT be able to remove the #2 and #5 springs (safely) because the cylinders at TDC would be at #3 and #4, is this correct? Or is the safe cylinders to remove and replace valve springs devided into 2 positions the TDC with timing pin in and 360 degrees EITHER way? It is the first situation correct? I'm going to need to turn the engine over 3 times at 360 degrees to safely replace the springs is this correct ?
​

 

[BigPapa]

The procedure for adjusting valve lash and replacing valve springs is NOT the same.

To replace valve springs, SM says to find #1 TDC using the timing pin and mark the damper every 120* as shown below. When the damper is in these marked positions you can replace the springs on those two cylinders. No mention is made as to which direction to turn the engine so I'd say it doesn't matter. It does state that if you don't have a barring tool, which you can use to turn the engine either direction, to use the alternator pulley. Using the alternator pulley turns the engine backwards.

To adjust valve lash, find TDC using the timing pin. In this position you adjust these valves:

• #1 Intake and Exhaust
• #2 Intake
• #3 Exhaust
• #4 Intake
• #5 Exhaust

Rotate the crankshaft 360* and adjust these valves:

• #2 Exhaust
• #3 Intake
• #4 Exhaust
• #5 Intake
• #6 Intake and Exhaust

 

[GAmes]

As I said previously, my method is only to replace the springs on the piston that is at compression TDC. After completing #1 I rotate 120 degrees to #5, replace those springs, check the valve lash, then proceed to #3, repeat, # 6, repeat, #2, repeat, #4. If you are turning the engine backward, obviously the order would be backward.

 

[raxley]

I finally got it done, springs installed and valves adjusted. Thank you for all the help. I found every comment helpful and I wouldn't have liked to miss even one. From the 'sucking' feeling that a pushrod 'feels' like when it's properly in the lifter, to the methodology of replacing springs and adjusting valves to the 120 degree crankshaft positions to the immediate 'problem' (lack of knowledge) when I thought I had dropped something in the pushrod hole, it was all useful. Thanks!