Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) '95 12V.... "Sort of starts"... help :)

[ViperJay]

Went to crank my truck the other day, and it won't start. It "tries" to fire, but just won't stay running. Once in a while it will sputter for about 3 or 4 seconds if I hold the throttle down half way. Any leads to the problem would be appreciated.

 

[Joe G.]

Does it quit as soon as you let the key return to run? Or does it stagger and sputter a while after that?



If it's the first then look at the voltage supply to the hold coil in the fuel solenoid (small colored wire) to the connector. Also look at the fuel solenoid boot. It may be rotted and is tangled up in the linkage.



If it's the latter you probably have a really bad air leak in your fuel supply system.



Check the fuel hoses. If they even look odd, replace them. You can't see an air leak. If some fuel is dripping from a hose then it's really bad. In any case, if the hoses are not bad now they will be. You need diesel rated hose. The clerks at an auto parts store usually say that their fuel hose will work for diesel. It will for a whlle then fail. Got to a marine hardware store or a big rig shop for good hose. Or order a kit from http://www.fostertruck.com/dodge/default.htm



There are other possibilities, but that is the most common. You could have any of the following so don't just start throwing parts at it. Do a little trouble shooting.





Bad fuel heater.

Bad fitting on top of the fuel heater/pre-filter assembly.

Bad gasket in the pre-filter.

Bad hose between the pre-filter and the lift pump

Plugged fuel filter

Bad fitting going into the fuel filter

Bad fitting on top of the fuel tank

Bad lift pump



All of the above are cheap to fix except the lift pump which is the least likely suspect.



All of these have been discussed many times on this forum.

 

[ViperJay]

As soon as I let off the key, it quits. I'll check the solenoid and let you know what I find.

 

[McLaughlin]

Take a close look at the fuel cutoff solenoid. The plunger should pull "up" when the key is turned to start and then stay in the "up" position after the key is released (helps to have someone turn the key while the plunger is watched). If it doesn't pull "up" then you might try to turn the key to on/run but without the truck running and manually pull the plunger up. If the circuit/solenoid is good the plunger should stay up. If it does, then you may want to check your grounds and power wires really close. I recently had an intermittent start problem where the solenoid plunger wouldn't pull "up" and it was caused by a bad ground at the driver's side battery. My truck would turn over and usually would sputter a couple of times (wouldn't run for even a couple of seconds though). I have a 97 which has a relay on the firewall which is used to provide high current power to the "pull up" portion of the solenoid. The relays have been known to fail and cause the truck not to start. I am not sure if your truck has one but it is another potential problem point if the solenoid is not working correctly. If the solenoid is working correctly then Joe G gave you a pretty good list of things to check especially if you have been noticing an increasing amount of white smoke.

 

[ViperJay]

OK, I turn on the ignition switch to the on (prestart) postion, and check the solenoid... not pulled in, the boot is completely "mush"... . I can pull the solenoid in(up) by hand, and it stays up... for experimental purposes, I wire it up with a coat hanger to see if it will start.



When I try to start it. it turns over and tries to start, but other than a slight catch, about every other second... . no go.



I'll check the voltages on the solenoid next, if they are twelve volts, I'll order a new one (any recomendations of where to order from?) and then I'll start down the rest of the list.

 

[JFaughn]

Slow down a bit , test to make sure the parts are bad , unless your just trying to keep the econmy going .
Fuel pressure test , the relays [ not sure when & what yrs. , but mine has 2 relays , one pulls it on the other holds with ing. in run ] they work the fuel shut off solinoid , and there can be voltage feeding back to the sol. from the starter sol. if the contacts are getting bad ,
If you've got the linkage up & it still does not start then the problum is els where ,
Sound fuel related , lines , hoses , lift pump , tank sending unit [ have read some have broken off and no fuel at low tank level ].

The bigger the cost of the part , the more test to prove you need it .

 

[McLaughlin]

Make sure you don't have a wiring problem or ground issue before ordering/buying either the solenoid or the relay. If I remember right the solenoid cost about $200 and the relay cost anywhere from $20 to $80 dollars depending on where you get it.



I can second what JFaughn said regarding the voltage. LarryB sells a diode to prevent the starter from feeding back voltage(and burning out) the fuel cut off solenoid from the starter. Apparently if the starter contacts go bad they can damage the fuel cut off solenoid; however, you should have had some indications the contacts were going bad (from what I understand, usually some clicks and no start). All that said, if the starter plunger is staying up when the engine is cranking then as JFaughn suggested, you may have a fuel supply problem.



From what you mentioned, you might want to make sure the solenoid plunger stayed all the way up when you wired it in place. If it isn't then it could be up but not enough to allow the truck to start depending on how the linkages are all adjusted. Something else that hasn't been mentioned is to check the fusible link that feeds the relay. The link is built into a wire coming straight off the driver's side battery on my truck (every thing I've read says the wire is supposed to be blue but mine isn't). In this thread is a diagram of how my truck's fuel cutoff solenoid is wired (it doesn't show the starter connection but the connection does exist):

 

[Joe G.]

There is only one relay involved with the fuel solenoid. That other relay is for the fuel heater. From the symptoms it appears to be pulling up part way. If it was pulling up all the way it would start good and die when the key was allowed to come back to run. The fuel solenoid is easy to test. Take it off and put it on your work bench. Connect the ground (black wire) to the negative post of a battery. The white wire is the pull up coil. Connect the other wire to the postitive post of a batter. Touch 12 volts to the white wire. It should pull up with a snap and stay up. Only touch the white wire because the pull on coil draws about 40 amps. If that works then look for some sort of electrical problem.

 

[KingS]

somthing else is the problem if you pulled and held the solenoid up with a coat hanger and it wouldn't start that isn't your problem not sure what it could be but these other guys should.

 

[JDHenning]

Sounds like my 94. Pulled up to the combine to fuel up, hit the key to move the truck, started for a second or two that was it. Ended up being the lift pump which seems to be unusual for the 12v. If you have wired the shut off solenoid up you have eliminated that fromthe list I would look at fuel pressure or like others have suggested take a look at the fuel lines. Good luck.

 

[ViperJay]

Sounds like my 94. Pulled up to the combine to fuel up, hit the key to move the truck, started for a second or two that was it. Ended up being the lift pump which seems to be unusual for the 12v. If you have wired the shut off solenoid up you have eliminated that fromthe list I would look at fuel pressure or like others have suggested take a look at the fuel lines. Good luck.

Other than the boot being completely shot (can I buy just a boot??) the fuel cutoff solenoid appears to be functioning correctly. In the presart position, if I pull it up, it stays up. I had my wife watch it as I turned the key to the start position, and it pulled up fine, When I let the key return to the prestart position, and look under the hood it is still pulled in. when I turn the key to accessory, it drops out. So all apears to be fine there.



I'll check the linkage to see if it is set correctly per the manual.



This is not the first time this has happened, it occurred one time about a year ago. After cranking a while it would finally catch, it ran really rough for about ten seconds and then gradually sped up to a normal idle, at that point I increased the revs until it felt like it's old self... . and it ran fine for a year... .



I'll pick up a fuel pressure tester today.

 

[Joe G.]

You can get a new boot from LarryB.

 

[ViperJay]

You can get a new boot from LarryB.

I'm pretty new around here, could you PM me his contact info?

 

[Joe G.]

http://www.fostertruck.com/dodge/default.htm

 

[ViperJay]

Status

OK, have all the pieces and parts to check the fuel pressure, made the "T" from hydraulic fittings from the local tractor dealer.



Question, based on all I've read in the manual, it is supposed to be running to check the fuel pressure (mechanical fuel pump?). um, it won't run, so the question is will I see fuel pressure while I'm turning it over? If so, will it be the 9-11 expected, or somethign less?



Also, when I pulled the elbow off that is between the preheater and the lift pump, no fuel came out... . I expected some fuel to drain... . is this normal?



I ordered the new boot, while I was at it, I ordered the starter contacts and solenoid saver diode. As long as I'm this deep, may as well do some other work in the neighborhood



Thanks for all the help thus far.

 

[ViperJay]

Good news/bad news

Well, after trying to start it... . no fuel pressure



Looking like a bad lift pump



There was a "little" fuel in the hose after the test though.





OK, where is the best place to get a lift pump?

 

[JFaughn]

I got mine from Presision Diesel & Turbo , Marty Tompkin , Mason MI. , 517-694-1522 , for $95 .
Since then I have heard that some guys are getting them from any parts house as low as $65 , not sure about the quality diff.

 

[ViperJay]

Thought I'd let you know how it all worked out. It was the lift pump. Took a bit to bleed the system after words, but once done, it runs smooth(?) as glass.



One point of interest, I also replaced the check valve upon recommendations I read in other threads, to get it out, I had to file off some casting flash from the head to be able to back it out far enough to get it out. There was an undercut in the head already, just that the casting flash was big enough to not allow me to get out the check valve fully.



While I had everything apart, I put the big contacts in the starter and the diode. A pleasant surprise was that it appears to be a recently installed new starter, the contacts were barely arced.



I found the water sensor wires had been damaged, so I replaced it with a new one, and replaced the water separator at the same time.



Also replaced the fuel hoses while I had easy access (the starter and filter were removed).



Finally I also put in a new Fuel cut-off solenoid boot. by the time it was done, I had a bout $250 in parts, and $100 in tools (fuel pressure gage and fittings)



Does anyone know where I can get the rubber boot on the end of cable that attaches to the starter? Mine was hard as a rock, and no longer can be properly sealed around the connection.



Thanks for the help!

 

[JFaughn]

Check with a Napa , or a rebuilder shop .