Archived 95K total hydraulic failure

[David_VT]

UPDATE: Picking up the truck tonight 12-24-03. . $2400 xmas gift to myself (not)... Thx all for the inputs and advice



Hi,

I am putting this in the 911 area as I am down but crisis is slightly averted by having 12yrold suburban as a spare... . It is not legal for responding to my medical and fire calls so I need to get the Green Monster (99-2500) back on the road...



The ole Green Monster's steering and brake power assist has died on me. <b>I just need some advice</b> to insure I don't spend money on the wrong things as I try to fix this...



Yes, this is pretty much self inflicted by living on nasty dirt roads most of the time and making the mistake of choosing to put off a steering box leak repair for a few months...



History. .

1) several month steering gear leak which was watched and fluid added often to... put off repair for $ issues... did have the bolts tightened up a few times but knew it was only time... Wanted to save up and buy the lower support addon that I've seen on the web... .

2) winter howl from powersteering pump, one replacement during warranty but the howl continued every winter even with synthetics

3) rarely the fluid level would drop enough (due to the leak) so I would hear a howl. We would stop asap and add fluid, knowing that the roll of the dice on the pump was being used up quickly. .

4) we never lost enough to impair the steering or brakes...



Symptoms:

Drove across my hilly back fields and hooked up to a trailer. When I put the truck in gear and started to move, I noticed the steering assist was gone. Thought we must be low on fluid... Reached the parking lot and remembered the brakes use the same power assist... .

There was and is no howl as might be heard when the fluid has been found to be low in the past.

Checked the fluid level and it was visible in the tank but seemed a little low...



Steps taken thus far:

Added a tiny bit of fluid to top off the tank with no improvement.

Raised front wheels off the ground and cranked the wheel (without the engine on) both ways hoping to see an improvement, no change

Parked the truck and ordered steering gear and pump

Now on TDR wondering if I missed something stupid before getting these new parts dirty...



Questions:

As this pump seems gear driven, is there any other failure mechanism that could cause a total loss like this?



Is there a better way to insure I am not fighting an air bubble introduced by driving over the hills on the way to the trailer?



Is there any special hints for changing out the steering gear box and pump that I should consider?



Anyone in North East Vermont want to get there hands dirty with me?



Thanks in advance for any constructive thoughts on this. .

David



(Figures I just put two new batteries in the beast!)

 

[jjohannessen]

Just to let you know. . When i changed out my steering gear box, The new one had standard bolt's, Old one metric. You might want to make sure to have (3) 9/16 bolt's on hand. Not sure why the new one was different Never changed the pump, so some one else might chime in

 

[illflem]

The PS pump is a gear pump, if it runs low on oil it heats and can bind up causing the pin that connects the main drive gear to the shaft to break. It might be a simple fix to take it apart and fix it yourself but there could also be other damage that isn't apparent.

I would replace the pump and fix your leaks.

 

[willyslover]

Yo David... how ya do'in buddy long time no hearing from ya



you might want to e-mail Chris Sutton . . when he did the Rock Ram steering he became very familiar with the separation issues of these two [pump and vac pump] that are hooked up together. . he had a problem and it's in a rock ram thread, but I do not remember what it was



if you don't have his e-mail throw me a PM and I'll get it for ya



also keep me in the loop on this one as I also have a long term leak that I haven't found in the hydro boost / steering system [but guess you have to actively look for it and not procrastinate ]

 

[BWilson]

I had almost exactly the same thing happen to me last year. Unfortunately, I took all of the steps that you did only to find out it was the coupler between the power steering and the vacuum pump (vacuum pump side) that broke. I ended up changing both pumps and the power steering gear assy.



The new pump still makes noise and doesn't work sometimes when standing still and I have changed the gear box again already... ... .



Good luck.

 

[David_VT]

coupling?

Hmm,

The more I read about this, the more it looks like the coupling and not so much the pump.



I don't recall if one should see anything rotating when looking into the power steering pump fill cap...



I'll find out tonight with a flashlight.



Anyone tell me how to tell if the shaft coupling is gone?



Thx for the inputs everyone!



David

 

[David_VT]

Drivetrain warranty...... ???

Hey,

Anyone think I have any chance in hell of using the extended drivetrain warranty to address this powersteering issue?



I wonder because this is a gear driven pump and if the shaft drive is the problem that sure sounds more like an engine /drivetrain issue then a belt driven accessory would. .



I know, like heck.....

 

[Andy Redmond]

If the pump has gone, it may have air in the system. I would address the pump first then then steering gear (it had leaks ??).



Follow the FSM bleeding proceedure. . for the hydro boost.



For the PS bleeding, jack up the front of the truck and turn the wheel all the way to the left. Top off with ATF (in your model year?) I know the 03-04's use ATF+4 in the reservoir. . chk. your FSM and or owners manual.



With the engine off and key on turn the wheel lock to lock a few times and then check the fluid level. Maybe up to twenty lock to lock's if the ps pump/reservoir is changed.



I've had reasonable sucess with a remanu. company called "A-1 Carbon" ps pump. Many large auto parts store chains sell them. Maybe about 70 plus a core.



Good luck.



Andy

 

[David_VT]

Update: the beast is now under a layer of snow like a hibernating bear. I changed my sig for the time being and hope to wake the bear from it's winter slumber prior to spring... .



Seriously we will likely limp it to the dealer late one night for a diagnostic visit (ok in rural vt where it can be hours per car vs cars per hour in some stretches).



In 96 my wife talked me into taking the 'burb' to chevy with a bad transmission at 55K miles when I was about to spend 2K. GM 'discovered a silent recall' which got me a free transmission on what I thought was an out of warranty truck.



Somebody wins powerball once in awhile, so maybe I will get lucky at the dealer a second time... .



==

ps: I now recall that I was backing up to the trailer when this seemed to start. If I had left the parking brake on, could I have done something to the master cyl that could have started this problem? I doubt it but do love to think out of the box... .

 

[David_VT]

UPDATE: My 99 is in the DC shop now for the total hydraulic failure. Reading other posts I got nervous that simply changing parts in my back yard might lead to a discovery that I could not fix myself (brakes or vacuum pump shaft). Hence I drove it to DC in the middle of the night... .



I got the call a few minutes ago that the potential bill just went from $1200 to more than $2200 as the gear inside the non-repairable vacuum pump that supplies power to the power steering pump is broken. Mind you the vacuum pump works fine but can no longer feed rotational power on to the powersteering pump that powers both the brakes and steering...



So:

steering gear box (leaked )

power steering pump (seized)

vacuum pump shaft that feeds power to the power steering pump tried to rotate on the mighty cummins power (no wimpy belts here folks!)

vacuum pump shaft gear(sheared)



Moral of the story:

Look under your truck often for steering gear box leaks and remember that VP44 vs lift pump is not the only potential expensive problem lurking under our trucks. .



==========

I just found a 24V engine and might steal what I need and part it out rather than pay DC for another set of new parts for mine...

 

[BWilson]

This is exactly the same thing that happened to my truck. The repairs are actually quite easy but the parts are expensive. The vacuum pump from Cummins was round $250-300. The PS pump was around $100 from the local auto parts store and the Gear Assy was $300-400 from the local store. All in all itr took about three or four hours to change all of it but I had to replace the oil line that goes into the bottom of the vacuum pump because it was seized up and would not unscrew.



I can walk you through the steps if you want to save a couple grand... .....



Good luck



Brad

 

[David_VT]

BWilson, thx for the offer to help.



It is too late for me to save the money. However, let's leave this for someone searching for a way to save money in the future!!



I had bought the ps pump and gear box and thought I was on the way to save money by doing it myself but got worried that I'd be unable to finish the job if I had a surprise so we took the truck to DC. I brought those parts back to the parts store. .



When DC discovered that I needed a vacuum pump, I bought the spare 01 cummins engine and gave DC the vacuum pump. We were lucky that the oil line did come off the 01's vacuum pump properly. I watched the DC tech remove it! (he confessed being nervous about that line, this well before reading your posting)



DavidVT

 

[David_VT]

$2300+ for repairs.... (so far)

Good news. .

Stopped down at the dealer and fired up my truck at 19F.

After a minute or so the engine rpm ramped up to about 1200RPM! Finally the OEM fast idle works!! (96K miles and paid off in 5 month)



Bad news. .

$2300 for a PS failure repairs and various other 'issues' discovered during that repair. .

No lift pump replacement despite it being stock original pump and my complaints about running rough on steep hills and problem getting prime after fuel filter replacement. .

Truck still at the dealer...

Oh, and when I fired the beast up to check the hi-idle, a slight turn of the steering wheel brought forth the good ole powersteering pump howl. . BRAND NEW PUMP! AHHH