'97 Problems and ?'s

[GOODE11]

Hello guys,



I'm a new graduate from the 1st gens to a 2nd gen '97 club cab 4X4, 5sp w/ 125,000 miles. But I have a few problems with it and thought someone could help me.



1.

When starting the truck, I have to depress the go pedal about a 1/4" for it to fire on the first "crank" like my 92. Otherwise it takes 3-4 "cranks" or about 2 seconds. Then when started it has a strange ticking noise that can be heard on the sides and the back of the truck. I checked the valves and its not them but it does speed up and slow down w/ engine rpm.



2.

There is a growl that is present at highway speeds when the engine is under load. Is this exhaust or is this something typical of this year truck? My brother's '98 24v also did the exact same thing.



3.

I'm sure this has been hashed out several thousand times but what perf. upgrades are the best bang for the buck w/o killing MPG? Injectors or camplate or both?

Guages and exhaust are already in the budget. I do pull this truck and still need fuel mileage also.





Any suggestions?



Hope I didn't ramble too much and thanks to all who reply!

 

[Deezul1]

My recomendation would be gauges first, then a #11 plate. Any more plate than that will require a heavy duty cutch. The exhaust can wait till high EGTs are a problem and a BHAFilter will help a lot with that for a lot less money especially when towing. See my sig, I am at the new clutch stage if I really romp on it but just finished a 3700 mile trip through the high mountains of Colorado and New

mexico with a 6000 lb trailer and had no trouble with the clutch. A 4"exhaust is needed mostly when above 400 HP

 

[GOODE11]

Deezul 1, what HP level do you run w/ the 370's and the #11? Also what did it do to your MPG? My truck is setup almost identical to weight wise. I can only muster about 18 on the highway.



Thanks--

 

[drawson]

#1) Idle speed is probibly too low causing your startintg problem or you have a leaking return fuel line.



#1a) The clicking is probibly the overflow valve. Talk to Piers



#2 ? No idea



#3 First Off dump the cat.



I would suggest the #11 plate first then if you wanted more and are willing to replace the clutch the 370 HP injectors and the 16 CM2 turbo housing.



My milage is better by far than it ever was stock, alot better towing. My right foot has the only effect on milage.

 

[WKener]

First, my '97 has almost exactly the same characteristics as yours... 1/4" throttle will fire it on the first turn, otherwise it takes a little over a second to start. I have never really worried about it too much to investigate... Maybe I should.



The ticking noise you hear can also be heard on my truck, from the sides especially, but not from the engine bay. Its much easier to hear it when I am off the throttle, such as coasting down a hill slowly in 2nd. From what I understand, that ticking can be traced to the fuel line and it is nothing to worry about.



I am not sure about the 'growl' you are hearing, but can you explain a little further? Does it happen only in a certain rpm range, or at all times under load? It would not be out of the ordinary to experience a slight drone or hum around 1800-2200 rpm or so, that seems to be the motor's resonance point, and it will be more noticable if you free up the exhaust.



As for upgrades, I would second Deezul's recomendation for the #11 plate. That is what I put in after I got my guages and new air filter, and it makes a world of difference.

The mileage should not be affected much, unless you are using the extra power all the time. I played with the pump a little bit after installing the #11 and the AFC spring kit and managed to increase my mileage substantially over stock (granted, my adjustments dont allow for the low end that some people like, but that also means less smoke off the line, but still plenty to get a 10K lb trailer up to speed). My mileage when I was stock hovered around 14-15mpg in the city and 16-18mpg on the highway, and I am now consistently getting 15-17mpg around town and 19-21mpg on the highway (that's keeping it at 65-70mph, because when you increase speed you kill mileage).

I am making 34lbs of boost at altitude (5000-10000ft), and 36-37lbs at sea level with the plate moved just slightly forward.



With this setup, my EGT's were okay at sea level unloaded, and could climb above 1200 when pulling, but usually didn't. At altitude, I could get the temps to 1200 unloaded if I wanted to when climbing a pass, but would stay at 1000-1100 or so at a reasonable speed. Then I took out the cat, and replaced the muffler with a straight 3", and the temps dropped significantly. I can now run 70mph up either Rabbit Ears pass on US 40 or to the Eisenhower tunnel on I 70 unloaded at or around 900 degrees (all pre-turbo), and I can maintain a good 50-60mph up either of those passes pulling 5-8Klbs without running into temp trouble.



I hope I helped in some way, and all this typing wasn't for nothing

 

[illflem]

The growl you hear may be coming from the carrier bearing bouncing back and forth rapidly in it's rubber isolator. This only happens on a X or Q cab with the two piece driveshaft under load, a well known problem. As far as I know the only fix is to avoid the situations that cause it.

 

[Power Wagon]

Slow start

The P7100 governor is remarkable unresponsive at idle speed.



There is so little spring tension at idle that the solenoid pulling off the stop linkage doesn't instantly crank the plungers over to the "pump" position. Instead, it kinda drifts over as you crank the engine around and it fires when it reaches the point you have enough fuel to start.



When you put your foot on the pedal a bit, it dramatically adds to the tension on the rack, and snaps the rack and plungers to "start", as well as going all the way immediately.



Your first gen truck did not have this problem, as the shutoff was not accomplished by moving the fuel control mechanism to "no-fuel", but by simply cutting off the fuel to the plunger with a rubber tipped plunger retracted by a solenoid.



As the engine died, the governor moved the fuel control sleeve to the "start" position. Next time you got in, fuel as admitted the moment you turned the key on and on the first compression stroke, it injected fuel.



On the P7100, the shutoff mechanism isn't released until you hit "crank", which energizes a "pull-in" winding, as opposed to the low-power winding that holds it in while you're running.



2nd gen trucks won't start unless you hit "crank" to snap the solenoid into "run" position. The run or hold windings won't do it. If you ever have to pull-start one, you will STILL need to hit "crank" with a charged battery to get it to start. Or, turn the key on, get under the hood, and manually pull the linkage to "run" yourself.

 

[The patriot]

#1 Mine started fine as it came from the factory. (about 900 rpm) I had the dealer turn it down to about 700, and I have to push the petal down a little also, to avoid excessive cranking. I consider it normal.



#2 What illflem said. Mine's only really noticible when under heavy load. My Dad replaced his carrier bearing, and it still does it. Save your $$$.



#3 I got the 370's, and I'm very happy with them. Lose the cat, OK?



Eric

 

[Deezul1]

I get 17mpg in town and 21-22 on highway at 75mph, 24-25 at 60mph. The 3700 mile trip averaged 14. 5 with about 300 miles with no trailer all the rest towing 6000lbs RV. I am guessing with advice from those who know that it is about 320. I have 3. 55 gears also.

 

[GOODE11]

Thanks for the responses guys!!



What is the best place to purchase the plate and guages?



I'm looking at Autometer's (Phantoms/Ultra-Lites), anybody have any opinions?



Patriot, you only have 370's and not the plate? If so what type of gains do you see?



I realize the 4" exhaust won't help for HP, but will it not help EGT's and MPG?



I'll speak to Piers, that ticking noise is driving me crazy. Kind of scary too, my brother's '87 ford w/ the 6. 9 made this sound before it tossed a rod.



Power Wagon, is there a fix to this delay in firing? I've seen other 12v of this year w/o this "problem"



Thanks again for the info guys.

 

[Dennis Garrett]

These are the same gauges Geno's sell, if nothing else, call & ask for their free catalog.

www.westach.com

 

[The patriot]

Piers told me it would be 40-45 HP. I'd say it's that much, maybe more. My truck is totally stock, except for the injectors. A cam plate, and/or other mods would bring that number up a lot!!

Piers has cam plates on special this month!!

Eric

 

[Deezul1]

From what I have been told the 4" exhaust is good for around a 50 degree drop in EGT, The BHAF is good for about 200 when towing and cost about $40. 00. Removing the muffler and cat is a big improvment also. Save your 4" money and buy a plate and if you have a 215 hp motor your old injectors are worth selling if in good condition when you change to 370s. I did the 370s first only because a group purchas made it smart to buy those right then. They were a nice improvement but the plate really woke it up. The BHAF almost elminated my low end smoke after the plate install so it must be flowing more air, had the hose off the turbo and it looks real clean in there so the air filter seems to be working good.

 

[RedRamer]

#2 - Mine does the growl and starts at 2k rpm. It's real loud and havent figured it out yet but suspect the exhaust / waste valve. Sounds like hole in mufler for a gas job.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Start with a torque plate. You already have good injectors, and the bigger ones may hurt mpg in town. More timing will help mpg, go from 13. 5 to about 15. 3-15. 5 deg. If you go to too much power, you will need to upgrade the turbo exhaust housing to control egt. If you can get a copy, read TDR#23 where I wrote an article on power enhancements. Or, write to me or call (see latest TDR for my address etc. )

 

[GOODE11]

Thanks for all the great info guys!!



It looks like I need to spend some time on the phone w/ a few masters of the trade (Bombing Professors).



Thanks again!