Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 97 with engine electrical problems

[yooper]

My head is hurting from thinking about this and I did a lot of searching yesterday. Google kept popping up other Dodge Cummins forums. Other guys had similar problems, but the ESS change didn't always fix it.
My light switch quit on me and was changed on Jan 16, 12 and the headlights work fine. I think I found my fusiable link and it's not blue, but red. It's the heavy gauge wire going from the drivers side pos term to the power dist center right? I don't remember and didn't write it down, but maybe it was changed back in Dec 07 when my intake heater relay was fried.

I removed the nut where the fusiable links attaches to the power dist center and cleaned and coated it with dielectric grease. Before I bolted it back together, I put my multi-meter on 2k ohms and checked the resistence of the fusiable link, it was . 021.
I turned the key on in the ignition and tilted the steering wheel up and down many times with no change.

What you guys are saying is that I probably have two problems, instead of one. It's 24 degrees outside and I thought I would try to start it and see what happens and of course without the wait to start I don't have my intake heater grid. When I do bring it to my mechanic I'll probably have to tow it the 5 1/2 miles, which is no problem, because we live in the boonies. I don't know anybody with a 97 auto, but my buddy has a 96 with an auto.

I looked at Larry B's heavy duty shutoff solenoid kit which includes a relay and a fusible link for $139. Should I buy this for my solenoid problem? For the ESS somebody online said to order it from Cummins, it would be cheaper than the dealer. When I lived in the Detroit area we had two Cummins stores and I used to buy parts there, but that's 600 miles away. I can't seem to find an online Cummins store.

I called my Dodge dealer for a price check on an engine speed sensor and the parts guy didn't know what it was. We got off the phone and he said he would look in the FSM and see if he could find what it is.

Thanks
Ed

 

[yooper]

The parts guy at the dealer called and said the ESS there would be $165. I don't know how old the info was on the other forums yesterday, but someone said that the ESS was $70 at Cummins and $112 at the dealer.

Don't know if I should buy ESS and solenoid kit or bring it to my mechanic and have him start trouble shooting the grounds with the FSM. What do you guys think?

Something I just remembered, a couple of weeks ago I was accelerating up a grade(not towing) and my trans jumped out of 4th lockup for a split second and went right back in. This same thing happened about 6-9 months ago too.

Ed

 

[GAmes]

Do not buy any parts yet. You have listed problems that are not related which leads me to believe there is something else going on.



Here are a couple links about the shut off solenoid.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-powertrain/376454-fuel-shutoff-valve.html



Testing the relay is covered near the end of this article.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-engine/58777-joe-gs-fuel-system-writeup.html



Genos sells the ESS for $71. 95 item # 3924432 If you determine you need one check the connector, a late build '97 could have item # 3923129



The big red wire from the battery to the PDC is just that, a wire, not a fusible link. The blue fusible link is connected to a large gauge red/blk stripe wire. There is a smaller orange fusible link connected to a smaller gauge wire which could also be red/blk (hard to tell on mine) both of which parallel into the wire bundle below the PDC. The fusible links for the grid heater relays are large and black and connect to large black wires which go to the relays. By the way, when the key is on one of the wires to each relay should be hot. The PCM supplies the ground when it activates the heaters. If one of the small wires has juice when you turn the key to the on position you can hook it back to it's terminal, then ground the other terminal with a jumper to heat the grids.

 

[fest3er]

U. P. Winter. Salt. Consider the possibility of one or more corroded body/chassis grounds. Go through the electrical section, find most/all of the ground points and redo them (make sure they have almost zero resistance). Check from the ground wire(s) to the negative post of the battery.

That said, the problems you describe almost suggest a failure in the PDC; many of the failed functions are controlled by fuses and relays in there. Check to see that you have +12V between (the hot sides of the relays and fuses) and battery negative.

 

[fest3er]

U. P. Winter. Salt. Consider the possibility of one or more corroded body/chassis grounds. Go through the electrical section, find most/all of the ground points and redo them (make sure they have almost zero resistance). Check from the ground wire(s) to the negative post of the battery.

That said, the problems you describe almost suggest a failure in the PDC; many of the failed functions are controlled by fuses and relays in there. Check to see that you have +12V between (the hot sides of the relays and fuses) and battery negative. Also check that the fuses are all good.

 

[LandShark]

What codes can you get? Sounds like a bad PCM except the fuel shutoff solenoid had nothing to do with that.
Does the 'wait to start' light work as it should? I know you don't have grid heaters, but the wait to start light should continue to work. It the wait to start light is doing anything wierd it's a sure sign of a bad PCM.
Another thing to check is the +12v input to the PCM at the PCM plug. Low or intermittent power to the PCM can cause all your problems except the shutoff solenoid.
Engine will run with no ESS and and/or a bad computer ... you just loose all the functions the PCM controls: cruise control, charging, tach, trans lockup, etc.

New ESS can be had from NAPA, Oreillys, etc. , for under $100.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Computer ground for PCM is on driver's side head near the front.



I would check fuses also, Fuse box and PDC.

 

[yooper]

WTS light doesn't work. No codes, I think I read that you can do that on the 94-96, but not the 97. I do preventive maintenance and minor mechanical. Electrical is out except for something simple. So trouble shooting is out of the question.

I saw my mechanic yesterday and talked to him about my truck and I think I might bring it in to his shop this week. He should be able to trouble shoot this and I'll give him all the info you guys have given me. He can check the schematics in my FSM and I'll tell him to check all the grounds also.

I'll let you guys know what we find and what it took to get it fixed (I hope).

Thanks, everyone for helping.
Ed

 

[Dieseldemon]

Have him check the dark blue wire on the alt for a short I had one that had a short on the DB wire that is a common + wire for a lot of acc. on the diesel I had one that had a short inside the trans that knocked out the alt, overdrive, AC. Tach, speedo, and PCM, found the short and that fixed all the problems. Worth checking.

 

[LandShark]

"WTS light doesn't work" = bad PCM.
You should be able to pull codes on a '97 with a cheap automotive code scanner.

 

[GAmes]

No codes, I think I read that you can do that on the 94-96, but not the 97.

Yes, you can do the key on, off,on trick with a '97. Procedure and codes start on page 25-4 in the FSM.

 

[yooper]

My mechanic has on of those diagnostic testers, I hope it covers my truck.

I'll check the codes on my truck tomorrow.

Ed

 

[yooper]

I tried to check for codes by turning the key on and off according to page 25-4 in the FSM and no codes at all.

It was unusually warm today so I started the truck and brought it to my mechanic. He hooked up his diagnostic tester and he got nothing, no communication.
I did try to start it by turning the key on and holding up the rod on the shutoff solenoid, but it wouldn't stay up, so I tie wraped the rod up again.

The volt meter works, just not charging. When I'm driving it's on the second mark between 8V and 14V.

Ed

 

[Dieseldemon]

I think you have a short in the ign supply wire (can not read PCM)

 

[hsmith]

I haven't been keeping up with this post so I will ask if you have checked the ignition switch and harness connector?

 

[Missouri Mule]

You probably need a new fuel shut off solenoid. Did you check to see if you have power going to it when the key is in "run" position. If you have power going to it is the solenoid(check at connector). (did not read whole thread).



The voltage problem is probably the grid heater(S) are on. There is pre-cycle and post-cycle for the grid heaters. When they are post-cycle it will pull the voltage down 2 or 3 volts (engine running). Of course they could be stuck on so you need to put a test light/voltage meter/ multi-meter on the connection to the heaters to see if they are on. If they are in post cycle it should last 5 to 10 minutes (don't remember which one) or until you reach 15-20 mph. If they stay on longer than that you need to check the relays below batteries.

 

[yooper]

You probably need a new fuel shut off solenoid. Did you check to see if you have power going to it when the key is in "run" position. If you have power going to it is the solenoid(check at connector). (did not read whole thread).

The voltage problem is probably the grid heater(S) are on. There is pre-cycle and post-cycle for the grid heaters. When they are post-cycle it will pull the voltage down 2 or 3 volts (engine running). Of course they could be stuck on so you need to put a test light/voltage meter/ multi-meter on the connection to the heaters to see if they are on. If they are in post cycle it should last 5 to 10 minutes (don't remember which one) or until you reach 15-20 mph. If they stay on longer than that you need to check the relays below batteries.

I might have one or two separate problems. Rod won't stay up on the shutoff solenoid, no tach, no speedometer, not charging and trans in limp mode - starts off in 3rd and no shifting.
Mechanic has a copy of all the posts from everybody and is going to take a look at it today.

Ed

 

[BigPapa]

Hello Ed,



There are 3 large connectors on the firewall right above the brake master cylinder. Try disconnecting, cleaning, and re-connecting those connectors.



Does your fuel gauge work?

 

[yooper]

I feel really stupid, I was looking to move a mountain and all it was, was a molehill! I should have, but I didn't check all the fuses in the fuse panel, I checked the fuse panel cover and thought it can't be any of these little things.
I did check the fuses in the PDC though and they were ok. I was sure it was going to be a fusiable link, relay or the ESS.

My mechanic said always start with the little stuff first. While I was looking to find PCM, ESS and Solenoid etc in the FSM, he was checking the fuses. It turned out the be the 10A Engine fuse. That little fuse stopped my shutoff solenoid rod from staying up, wouldn't charge, no tach, no speedometer, no wait to start, no intake heater grids, no cruise control and trans in limp mode - 3rd gear only.

I'm sorry to put you guys through all this trouble, but I thank you a million for helping me!

Ed

 

[yooper]

I forgot, once the mechanic changed the 10A fuse I was able to get a code by turning the key on-off, it was code 12.

Ed