98 with a 8.3L and 9spd????

[mjoppie]

i read a thread about a 8. 3 in a ford and have been wanting to put one in my 98b ext cab 4x4 3500 dodge. i planned on using a 3" body lift to help with clearence issues but what else would be involved in doing such a project? my truck has 250,000 miles on it and figured about 350,000 i would do the change. kinda wanted to get the stuff around ahead of time. does any one have any info they would share about such a topic??

 

[TKingsbury]

Have you seen one in person and/or measured one? A 8. 3C is quite a bit longer than a "B" engine. I measured one a while back out of curiosity and it was like 6 or 8 inches longer (don't remember exactly, it was a while back). You would most likely have to put the radiator and all of that in the bed. I would imagine it weighs a fair bit more than a "B" also. Sounds pretty ambitious to me. Let us know more of what you find.

Travis. .

 

[mjoppie]

yes, they are a bit bigger but thought that would complete my "worktruck" idea. i talked to tst breifly about it and said that its not all that much of a different engine. i already know how to work on them so i thought it would be perfect. and the 8. 3 dets decent milage to i was thinking of maybe a 9spd and a divorced t-case since it is a ext cab theres quite ehough room to do it. but it would be cool to have one which is why i want to do it, nobodys got one Oo.

 

[DPinkston]

I know where there is a day cabover Freightliner for sale with what I have been told is a Cummins engine in it. I was thinking it might be a 5. 9 but after I looked at it, it's definitely not! It's at least 4. 5ft from fan blade tip to bellhousing face. It was dark and cold when I looked at it so I didn't look it over real good. I can get the whole truck for around $1000. The engine was supposedly rebuilt not long ago. If it is an 8. 3 it would put a tremendous amount of stress on any pickup frontend.

Danny

 

[SRadke]

There was one around, "C Series Man" or something to that effect, he was a member on this board. He may have sold his truck though... . I saw it on an ebay auction a while back. IIRC he chose to go the other way and build in a totally custom dash to allow for the extra room instead of moving the engine forward.



-Scott

 

[bgilbert]

Yeah he had a sweet rig. Someone asked if he had plans to bomb it, he said well stock it is 325hp and something like 1200ftlbs, plus all wrapped in a light duty truck, I think stock would twist some things. He had a divorced t-case I believe. He sort of dropped off the face of the TDR awhile back though.

 

[BV]

Scott is correct C-Series-Man had a 95 F350 with an 8. 3.



Here is his post on it: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36258

 

[gbm]

Mjoppie,

For some of us, an 8. 3 Cummins / Ram is the holy grail!



I have often considered this same swap. I have detailed dimensions of the 8. 3. I did some research on transmissions. I worked out gearing for optimum towing and for empty cruising. I even made up a plan on how much suspension lift and body lift it would take. My plan was to “dog house” the firewall, shifting the engine back 6 to 8 inches. Doing this would allow the radiator and A/C condenser to stay. It would also shift some of the weight bias toward the rear.



My next step was to work out how many BTUs the 8. 3 would generate under load, and how much radiator I would need (I often tow across the desert in 120+ degree heat).



The only thing that keeps me from doing this swap is that current “B” runs fantastic. It pulls my boat across the desert, up 6 and 7 % grades, with the A/C on full blast, without breaking a sweat. It also gets great mileage.



Mjoppie, if you do decide to proceed with this swap, please keep us informed, and take lots of pictures.



Geoff

 

[mjoppie]

yeah, i think that my truck with a 8. 3 would be the closest thing to a perfect truck i will ever have. theres a lot of people trying to talk me out of it but the idea is way to overpowering to not do it. the thread about the f-350 with the c-series is what pushed me over the top about doing it, its just wrong that theres one in a furd and not a dodge. :-laf i am off for about 4-5 months every winter and have time to do it but would like some details on what is involved. my plans were to go with a 3" body lift, move the motor ahead 2-3" and use a electric fan, maybe some firewall trimming. the 9 spd would just top it off like a great dream and they are bulletproof! i cant see it being that hard to do and i dont need this truck to be a demon racer just a pulling mule of a work truck, i already have a 95 w/ 500+ hp so i need a power house to pull dozers, skid loaders, and other construction equipment at my work. i planned on trying to start picking up parts for it and when i have everything around it would just be one winter of beer and fabbing.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

If the 8. 3L had a real ENGINE BRAKE, it would be worth the swap.



Otherwise, I can't justify the extra cubic inches, few hundred pounds more weight, tighter engine compartment, etc.



Other than an old 2-stroke Detroit - I can't think of any engine similar in size to a 6BT that has a real engine brake.



The 4-stroke/4-cylinder Detroit Series-50 has a jake... but, it's a heavy 8+ liter engine as well.



If someone made a real engine brake for a 6BT - I'd be first in line to get one.



Matt

 

[SGibson]

the 9sp is no lightweight either, what kind of front axle do you have?

 

[SRadke]

If the 8. 3L had a real ENGINE BRAKE, it would be worth the swap.



Otherwise, I can't justify the extra cubic inches, few hundred pounds more weight, tighter engine compartment, etc.



Other than an old 2-stroke Detroit - I can't think of any engine similar in size to a 6BT that has a real engine brake.



The 4-stroke/4-cylinder Detroit Series-50 has a jake... but, it's a heavy 8+ liter engine as well.



If someone made a real engine brake for a 6BT - I'd be first in line to get one.



Matt

Oh Matt, don't get me started... ... . What's my budget? How about a Cummins ISL? 8. 8 liters, common rail, real engine brake, just a bigger version of our little B How sweet it would be



-Scott

 

[RDupree]

i have an 8. 3 /10 speed roadranger in a 2000 f650 crewcab,great engines,lots of power,good milage.

 

[rfull]

yea and i got 1 in a f-800 with allison and browine

and 2 pd rear



need the 10 spd buddy~!!!!

 

[HoleshotHolset]

How about a Cummins ISL? 8. 8 liters, common rail, real engine brake, just a bigger version of our little B

You've sparked my interest... now I just have to win the lottery to afford one. Hrmmm... I guess an ISX would be too big/heavy... the C-Series 8. 3L doesn't appeal to me at all. I like this ISL, business... only because a QSK-19 won't fit.



Matt

 

[CGriffith]

The ISL is a 8. 9L. Has the same bore as the C but a 1/2" more stroke. So I would guess the block is the same but the overall engine is taller due to the tall valve covers for covering the engine brake. The ISL is pretty quiet too. I wonder if the engine brakes off the ISL would fit an old C. Anybody know what is used to hold the exh valves open on a ISL?

The good thing about the 6CTAs is the P7100 pump. The old Cs can take huge injectors and twins too if you got room. TST claims 520hp and 1800ftlbs out of a C with the addition of a plate, injectors and a different housing for the HX40.



I would go for a 13speed RR if it was me. The 13s are about 4" longer and 100lbs heavier (716 vs 617lbs). (18speeds are the same size/weight just more money )

The the ratios on the top 4 gears in the 9speed are similar to a NV5600. Add that to the short rpm range of a C and you will be between gears alot if you want to haul anything. See RoadRanger for all the specs.

(PS why doesn't someone make an engine brake for a B. It might cost $3k and whole new head but I know it could be done)

 

[HoleshotHolset]

TDR member 'Batman' personally saw a prototype engine brake setup for an ISB. He couldn't get too much information on it, though.



Here's a few reasons why there isn't an engine brake on the market - sad, but true:



1) Cost - cubic dollars to prototype, beta test, etc.

2) Could it be too effective - locking up the rear tires? That could be solved, though... just have multiple settings - just like the big rigs.

3) Noise. The manufacturer may not be responsible for the proper use of their product... but they'd still take a lot of heat if folks abused their 'brakes in neighborhoods, etc.

4) Space constraints under the hood. Doesn't a 'brake add about 3" between the head and valve cover? We don't have that kind of room on 2nd/3rd Gen trucks. (I'd take a sawzall to my firewall/cowl if I had to... )



Matt

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I found a great graphic that shows how an engine brake is setup.



Since we don't have rocker actuated injectors - a real engine brake is sorta tricky. Getting the timing right when the engine has rocker actuated injectors is much, much easier... After looking at this diagram, I'm not even sure if it is possible to have an engine brake on a B-series engine.



Check out this page and click on 'Engine Brake Theory' for more information.



Matt

 

[Sled Puller]

We have aenough trouble with our front ends as it is. I think I would jump to the next size truck, and slip a Dodge body down on it.

 

[mjoppie]

ahhhhh i see the ball is rolling now :-laf this is the kinda info that is needed in my swap. i know that it is heavy, bigger, and will need a lot of fabbing but the fact that no one else has one is whats driving me to do it. a real ex brake would most definitly be a plus, what kinda trucks did the 8. 3 come in with a manual transmission? i seem to keep finding autos. i think that the 8. 8l motor sounds nice but i would like to stay away from electronics. and with the p-pump i already have some knowladge about it.