Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) '99 dowel pin failure

[dezeldog]

Steve

What are the chances of getting a JIG to show up at the MCCC Bomb Session as I clearly need this taken care of TIA







Jim

 

[tcourse]

Now I know what to do.

I've been trying to get a answer to this ? for some time.

Even had a KDP party at my shop and did 5 trucks. Should have done mine. It was built in January 98. Had to wait for the 24V.



Guess I know what my nest Bomb will be.



TC

 

[illflem]

Steve's advice is best - if you have a '98 or '99 assume that you have the old style case since the only way to tell is to do as much work as the tab method of containment. Using a jig is about one third the amount of work as tabbing, around an hour, cheap insurance.



I never seen how these trucks are assembled but assume there is a pile of crated engines next to that part of the assembly line. I doubt if Dodge rotates the stock nor completely runs out of engines, who knows how old or what case is on the engines at the bottom of the pile? They could conceivably be up to a year or more older than the ones on top. If this is the case the truck's build date doesn't mean much.



Same goes for the engine build date and serial number. During assembly Cummins is most likely working off a stack of cases with the older ones at the bottom, dipping into them occasionally and randomly, never running out all the way. Same thing probably applies to the warehouse the cases came from. Who knows how long it took to finally deplete the old cases entirely? It's even possible that the last box of old style cases was hiding in a corner of the warehouse and didn't get brought out onto the assembly floor till 2002.

 

[FourBarR]

kdp

my truck is a 98. 5 with 143000mi. i made an appointment with PIERS on wed. to do the jig thing. be interesting to see if the dowel has moved. Oo. Oo.

 

[rmrc]

KDP

FourBarR



Let us know how it goes! I'm also getting ready to have my engine done. My engine build date is Sept 98, so I'm definitely in the lottery for the KDP!

 

[Duane George]

stupid question............

seems like i'm on a roll for stupid questions. so what's one more in my life.



can you put on a new cover?? or did they change them enough

for this not to work?



anybody got a picture of this jig thing??



thanks!!



Duane

 

[danandamy]

Well, it just occured to me that whenever I point up the superiority of the 12valve to my 24v brethren, the best they can ever come up with is "KDP" hmmmmm seems ya'll have "KDP" too. . tsk tsk tsk sorry guys



potstirrer dan



12 VALVES RULE!!!!

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by illflem





Same goes for the engine build date and serial number. During assembly Cummins is most likely working off a stack of cases with the older ones at the bottom, dipping into them occasionally and randomly, never running out all the way. Same thing probably applies to the warehouse the cases came from.

illflem, I think your logic is flawed. Lets see Cummins is using old parts that were discontinued, 5 years later? If Cummins was that bad at cycling their inventory they would not be in business today (I hope). Cummins has known about the KDP problem for several years. Your saying that knowing about this problem Cummins used old parts that would cause the problem, when they had new parts that would correct the problem. If this ends up being true I don't think any of us can ever say a positive thing again about Cummins or their engines

 

[illflem]

Pitbull I would think the same as you except that Cummins didn't change the part number with the improved case.

My feeling is they didn't change the number because it would be admitting they had a problem that they say is insignificant. Their butt is covered. If you ask a Cummins parts man there is no such thing as a improved case.

 

[John Berger]

So how do you tell if you have the improved cover? I sure would hate to go to the trouble and find out it wasn't necessary.

 

[illflem]

This photo was taken from the back side of the new case. The only difference is that the middle hole for the dowel pin is now necked down so the pin can no longer work its way out. Too bad this wasn't included in the original design. The only way to know if you have the improved case is to remove the fan, fan hub and gear case cover and look for the stepped down hole. There are no different numbers nor indications from the outside.



#ad

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by illflem

Pitbull I would think the same as you except that Cummins didn't change the part number with the improved case.

My feeling is they didn't change the number because it would be admitting they had a problem that they say is insignificant. Their butt is covered. If you ask a Cummins parts man there is no such thing as a improved case.

This type of corporate behavior is very sad!!!



Even if they did not change the part number, to cover their butt, they would use all of the old parts first, basic inventory control procedures. Now, I feel that when it was determined that the old cases needed to be redesigned and a new case was produced it should have a new part number and all of the existing old style cases should of been recycled. That is what a "quality" company does. It looks like Cummins did not do that I don't think we can brag about having a Cummins engine anymore. Personally I am not worried about the cover, my CTD was made in June of 2002 (over 4 years after the redesigned cover was put into production). But If they have acted this way on the cover, they have also acted this way on other parts of the engine, that we are still not aware of. :{ I don't like knowing this, ignorance is sometimes bliss, but illflem, you should be complemented for bring this to our attention. Thanks

 

[GiesJ]

Not to start a war, but in the time people have taken to post their dissapointments in Cummins, they could have easily completed the Jig fix. It's EASY. I learned some and had fun. Plus the jig kit is just plain cool. The guy that made the jig and fan removal tools is an artist.

So Get on the Jig list and do it, one saturday morning and you are done and can sit back on these threads and say, fixed!

I hope that helps and doesn't get anyone

later,

j

 

[John Berger]

I have one question on the jig fix. Why is an air compressor needed? Sorry if I'm missing the obvious.

 

[Ncostello]

Air provides a positive pressure inside the engine and thus any hole drilled in the cover will tap into this positive pressure source. When it does, air will rush out and blow out any shavings during that critical "breakthrough" moment. Not much is needed (2-3 psi maybe) or you'll run the risk of blowing out seals or gaskets.

 

[GiesJ]

I believe the directions I read said that you could use a shop vac if you do not have a compressor.

Edit - shop vac on reverse (blow. )

 

[Duane George]

will a new one.......

will a new cover fit??

i'm assuming it will but has anyone

tried or compared them??

wonder what the cost would be?



thanks for the help!



Duane

 

[illflem]

Duane, the cover isn't the problem, it's the case. This website shows whats involved with changing the case. http://www.flex.net/~triplem/new/dowelpin.htm

 

[Ncostello]

Just an assumption, but did Cummins probably manufacture these covers as blanks and machine them out to fit the particular fuel injector pump? I was just thinking about the mounting of a P7100 vs the VP44.



I wonder if you bought a new replacement case for a 12V truck if it would have the stepped hole (and the bolt pattern for a P7100 of course). Or if they are still delivering old style replacement cases. Just thinking out loud.

 

[jwilliams3]

I have a 99 manufactured in January of 1999 and I am interested to see if I have the "older style case".



Too bad, I didnt check gear cases back then at work!



I doubt that I do have an older style case, MANY 24 valves are out there currently from the 1999 model year only second to the 2001 Model year.

This is the 1st time I have heard of the KDP in a 24V.



My advice is dont get paranoid about this situation, but if you are worried get the KDP quick fix.



Also many are worrying for nothing, when these dowels were installed, they were installed at a depth to engage correctly with the gear case. The dowel was not bottomed out in the block.

So in fact, most have not moved at all, as some members here believe.



--Justin



PS Illflem, Cummins uses the flow system for logistics.

Most of our parts for manufacture/assembly are only days old.