A/C Performance About to Change Again?

[rbattelle]

R-12 (commonly known as Freon) is possibly the single best refrigerant for vapor compression refrigeration systems. EPA decided it eats too much ozone, so they outlawed it. Now we use R-134a, which is a good refrigerant, but offers poorer performance than the old R-12 systems do.



Well, now it seems R-134a eats too much ozone! In 2011 the EU will outlaw R-134a in automotive applications (not sure about other applications). You can bet the US EPA will follow suit.



The new refrigerant of choice? CO2. Anyone know the qualities of CO2 in relation to vapor compression refrigeration?



I suspect higher pressures in the condensor and lower pressures in the evaporator are going to be required to maintain performance. Will it be possible (or required) to retrofit an existing R-134a system to CO2?



Almost inevitably, of course, they will decide that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and hence outlawed for refrigerant use.



-Ryan

 

[Tony T.]

Almost inevitably, of course, they will decide that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and hence outlawed for refrigerant use.



-Ryan

If theres a way to squeeze more money out of our pockets, I bet they will be all for it.



Tony

 

[Jdonoghue]

I'm getting tired of companies legislating their way toward higher profits...

 

[FATCAT]

Time for a good old revolution ... the kind where you chop off the head of the big corporate tycoon or corrupt politician and hold his head up for the crowd to applaud and cheer.

 

[TSpecht]

Thankfully in this case it isn't businesses legislating their way into higher profits, it's the environmental movement. Now I'm all in favor of protecting the environment but I'd rather do it based on sound science rather than knee jerk policies and inaccurate research. Doesn't that make you feel much better knowing someone other than the regulars are screwing you? Oh wait you can think them for something else too, now what was it? I forget, I think it was something reguarding oil refineries and oil exploration maybe...

 

[WDixon27]

geez another rise in prices and condenser pressures, you already gotta work hard to keep some older receiver drier/expansion valve systems from damaging pressures. both of my r12 cars are still r12 and will remain that way just because i can

 

[KB0OU]

REVOLT!!!

Take all that nasty stuff out of the refrigeration systems and put propane in them, it works great, if you get in a wreck it might give the fire department something to do!!!

 

[FATCAT]

REVOLT!!!

Take all that nasty stuff out of the refrigeration systems and put propane in them, it works great, if you get in a wreck it might give the fire department something to do!!!

Really? It works? Do you have it in your truck?

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

Yes it works... . it also does a wonderful job of contaminating refrigerant recovery/recycle units. #@$%! #@$%! #@$%!

 

[Greenleaf]

Don't quote me on this but... ... ... ... ... ... ... .



I believe the next acepted refrigerent will be HC12a



It's a form of propane. And before you say it, get your facts from the website about it's flamability.



Duracool.com I believe it is.



I use it. I like it. Uses less than 1/2 the charge of CFC12 or 134a and it's environmentaly freindly.



-S

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

I had heard about Duracool awhile back in HVAC class..... Hoping it does become the next refrigerant... . Its got pretty much the best of all worlds.



As for the flammability... . its hydro-carbon based... what do you expect? Besides if you're in a wreck and have a 12 or 134 leak in the presence of flame... you get poison gas.



Hehe... . one of the reasons it wasnt exactly safe to go looking for a 12/134 leak with a reactive plate torch.



But Duracool is non-toxic as mentioned in the website.