Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) a few questions

[MSpeckman]

Hey there, I have a 96 2500 with an automatic trans.



i was looking at either a banks power pack- or a "PDR" twin turbo setup



truck has over 250k miles on it been stock the whole time i think the turbo is starting to go out- im hearing a lil bit of death whine from it- but my question is



IF i get the PDR kit- what needs to be done injectors wise and tuning wise- how do you tune these things? do they have standalones for them like they do for cars?



basically i've been browsing around the forum a li'l bit- and im kinda lost here as i've never touched this thing



its getting a new transmission thats good for like 750 hp so that is taken care of- now i wanna make say 450-500 hp



if i do this with the pdr kit what else do i need to do?



i am also lookin at maybe just a small turbo upgrade



found a turbo off a 02 high output with 14k miles on it - might just go with that for now do i need to change the restrictor plate? do any tuning? or just bolt up and go?



i need alot of help here

 

[MSpeckman]

ok ive done a bit more reading



i see the gsk 3k kit



somethin about a #10 plate



so if i get the 02 HO turbo get the 3k gsk kit, intake exahust and #10 plate what is involved in the tuneing of one of these engines- and would i be able to upp the boost



how much boost can this engine take completely stock



sorry if thats a dumb question but i know with my car i cant go over 14 lbs on the stock motor- i see the pdr kit is 50 psi for towing - will the stock motor handle 50 psi? or do i need to change the head gasket upgrade the valve springs?



the pdr towing kit looks sexy- so from my reading i imagine id need 370 injectors with the pdr twin kit the 3k gsk i havent a clue what # plate unless it comes with the plate im sure a fuel pump upgrade isnt out of the question? what exahust do you recomend? or is it best to just run a straight pipe with that kind of setup? - would an upgraded intercooler be wise on this truck?



basicly the 02 HO turbo would be a decent enough upgrade scince the truck is 100% stock except for audio equipment and alarm, but that pdr twin kit would be a nice upgrade too



If i knew what to use to tune this truck id just go with my car ways and get an ebc, a fuel tuner, and up the boost- of course i know diesel and my gas motor are 2 different beasts, witht he restrictor plate and the likes, but im sure ill get the hang of this-but then again the turbo has 250k+ miles on it and i think its due to be replaced



i just need to learn the basics of diesel performance i suppose- like how to upgrade and what to upgrade on the fuel system, how much boost this block can stand, what upgrades i can do to handle more boost, and looking at vendor sites has me scratching my head- Im also trying to read as much as i can on this forum, but im still a little bit lost-

thanks in advance guys

 

[DBraunig]

hi, welcome to TDR,



the 10 plate will come with a boost elbow to increase the boost psi. a lot of guys will grind their own plates, but if your new to this you might be better off with a TST kit. PDR has a great reputation, you can't go wrong there. The banks kit you mention is pretty high money, you can make big power cheaper if you read these forums for a while. your 96 should have the same turbo (bolt right up) as the 02, i am pretty sure they are both hx35's with 12cm2 housings. (HO motor is manual trans right?) so i dont know that the turbo swap will be a performance increase, but it may cure your "death whine". with a healthy turbo, the 10 plate and the GSK swaps really make an incredible difference, i would do these first. it will be like another truck. most people wont recommend 50 psi on stock head gasket/bolts. 38-40 is plenty and the stock turbo really isn't effective above that, just too restrictive. how about your trans/torque converter? are they setting the t/c up for a stock engine or with the bombs? This is really important, the truck, the bombs, how you drive all factor in converter setup. it will make the difference between "happy camper" and "no honey... not yet... i gotta get this transmission back out tonight". anyway, these are all IMHO. there are a lot of guys here that know way more than me and have the numbers to prove it. keep reading these forums, everything you want to know is here somewhere. Dave.

 

[bmoeller]

Welcome to the TDR.



Don't waste the money on the Backs kit. I make more power withmy setup, and spent considerably less.



Your truck and the same turbo as the '02 HO (HX-35 with 12cm2 wastegated turbine housing. Going over 30-35 psi put the turbo outside of its map (effiency range). Over that, the air just gets hot. Stock headgasket, I wouldn't go over 40 psi, given the miles on the current gasket. A marine gasket and headstuds will hold more. Then there is always having the head setup for o-rings or fire rings to take more boost.



Diesels do not use restrictor plate, those are for gassers. Gassers regulate air flow (and in turn the amount of gasoline if it has a carburator), the governors on fuel injecton pumps or the ECMs on diesels regulate the fuel to control power/engine speed/timing. In our case, the fuel injection pump is completely mechanical. No compter to control them. They do however have fully mechical governors to control the fuel. That is where the plate and the governor spring kit comes into play. There is an arm that is part of the governor. It follows the profile on the plate. The farther forward the arm moves, the more fuel is injected.



Unless you have a huge single turbo, or a big bottom turbo that requires a full 5" exhaust system, a 4" will be plenty. Just run without a muffler, or get one that is of a straight-thru design. After the turbo, you want the least amount of restriction. The turbo creates enough back-pressure.



You can get an ATS or HTT exhaust manifold. Shop around for the best price. Most (ATS) list for $460, but you can do better.



What do you want to do with the truck? Daily driver, race, sledpulling, dyno king... ... ... ? Depending on the use, you may want to setup the truck differently, per the situation. If you tow heavy, the #10 is a good choice. It will cut the fuel back at higher RPMs to reduce the exhaust temps (EGTs). For racing, it won't be a good choice. I think a #4 would be better. Or, maybe better yet, grind the plate flat, to make it into a #0 plate.



Turbo? For 450hp+, you'll want twins or big single (larger than the HX-40 that I have). Many different ones to choose from.



Injectors? At least a set of 370s, or equivelent, will support more than 450, depending on how the fuel injection pump is setup.



Maybe a bigger set of delivery valves. You have 181s in a stock pump.



That's enough for now. Gotta go.



Have fun watching the wallet shrink. :-laf

 

[MSpeckman]

its mainly gonna be used for daily driving, and towing a big gooseneck trailer around



but itd be nice to have some power behind it

 

[SDrake]

Anyone having read the above posts --- what parts of the recommendations for making power would one avoid if the truck is to be primarily a daily driver?

One of the reasons I have not proceeded any further with my mods is this question.



So far I have gauges, transmission upgrade and GSK3. #10 plate will probably go in, in a few days. Thought I might just mark current position of stock plate, slide it forward and drive around a few days before pulling it just for the learning experience. I am working on how I can advance my timing. It is currently at 12. 5. Need a cheap gear puller and a some kind of improvised rigging for my dial indicator. If I don't figure out the dial indicator lashup I may just go through the steps to move 1/4" on my damper. This was going to be a separate post but it might be food for thought for MSpeckman the original poster.

 

[MSpeckman]

another question, what would yall think of upgradeing to a HE400 series turbo ?



is the VGT worth it or no?

 

[bmoeller]

SD-



The first to do now (if you haven't already), is to figure how much power you are shooting for. Don't be to conservative. (I was shooting for 300hp and that was it. I'm past that now, and looking for more. :-laf) This will help save some money and time, by not having to upgrade the same part several times. Turbos for instance.



If you are shooting for the same hp as MS, it will take a couple of more parts, since you have a 160 pump. MS has the 180 pump, same as me.



Are you sure the timing is at 12. 5*? Wouldn't want to advance it to far. Don't really want to go over 16* isn't to friendly to a stock headgasket.



MS-



I have no personal experiance with a VGT. I like the idea though. Spools like a small turbo on the bottom, but moves more air like a big turbo on the top-end. Should help keep EGTs down some, and reduce smoke.



Can't be all bad.

 

[BTighe]

i thought the HO's had a 9cm housing to spool quicker that the SO's. grindin the plate isnt as difficult as it sounds. just go slow and your good.

 

[bmoeller]

The '98-'98. 4 12v trucks are the same power ratings as the '96-'97 trucks. 180hp auto trans and 215hp manual trans. Same turbo (HX-35/12cm2).



It is the 24v trucks hat have the HY-35 (9cm2) or the HX-35 (12cm2) turbos.

 

[BradyWilliams]

RE: Horse Power Upgrade?

I see a lot of advise here so I'll touch on a few things. First a #10 camplate for a manual trans. would be great for hp, but you have an automatic. I think that at least a #8 would be more to your liking. There is a suggested camplate list that shows what different camplates give in hp. The #8 is the suggested camplate. You may even try a #6 for you model year and trans. Next 370hp injectors are ok, but spray angles are slightly different which makes a little more smoke and drivability issues. You may want a set of 300hp injectors. They are more like what you have been used to on drivability. You may want to try a Phat Shaft 62 turbo. It's very drivable and is basically bullet proof and will support the hp that your looking for. Thanks

 

[bmoeller]

The chart is really only a guide. HP ratings are for plates in stock position. They can be slid forward for more power. TST only recommends a plate that get you to the 230 hp that OK'd by the EPA. That is why the #8 is rocommended for the '96-'98. 4 auto trucks.



Piers has the best chart, vs. TST Shows the hp/tq for all of the plates they offer.



What you are really after, is the plate profile. It will have the biggest effect on the driveability and powerband (along with the governor springs). The #10 in an auto truck is a good plate for towing. The ramp on the top will help control EGTs. Works great for that.



The 370s can be very smoky, but pretty easy to control with your right foot. Doesn't bother me any, just others. The Conservation Police (DNR type) give me dirty looks. :-laf I'm thinking about going to a set of EDMs to get rid of the white smoke in winter and the haze. They are a great, cheap, power addition, though.



EGTs aren't an issue, unless I'm on the dyno, doing the 1/4 mile run. Can bury the gauge. :--) Can't on the road, though.