A loss

[Howard Durand]

I read the forums for information, not BS. When the BS begins to outweigh the valid information, that is a signal to look elsewhere.

Arguments about politics, religion, best oil, best torque converters or whatever are pointless. No one ever really wins. Especially when the discussion becoms personal.



From what I was able to read there were a number of participants, each of them paritally responsible for the outcome.

It could have and should have been stopped early on.



I am thoroughly disgusted with the whole mess and if this is the direction these forums are headed, I will save my 35 bucks and look elsewhere.

My TDR magazine basically goes unread anyway because this is where I am able to learn the most about the 2nd gen trucks.

 

[jwdeeming]

Quitting the TDR based on the "Other" forum seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. That would be an unfortunate way to measure the value of this whole site. I don't agree with everybody's politics around the water cooler at work either, but I'm not about to quit my job over it.





It reminds me of boxing. Every so often some guy would come into the gym who didn't have the temperament for sparring. At some point he'd climb in the ring and get popped in the nose. Instead of rolling with it, and learning from it, he'd take it personally somehow, lose his temper, and then mess things up for everyone.



It's sparring - not a deathmatch.

Participation is voluntary...

 

[Steve M]

There is a handful of boxers that like to hit below the belt and it's met with approval by the referees.

When the atmosphere turns bitter and it's no longer an enjoyable place to hang out, folks simply move on to somewhere else.

You get paid to be at work. You pay to be here and being a member of a website forum isn't much of a necessity. There's quite a difference. Since you refer to a cliche, remember the one about one bad apple. That's all it takes to spoil the atmosphere.

 

[jwdeeming]

Things got out of hand and the moderator closed the thread. I don't follow you that the referee approved?

 

[Steve M]

Yes, you're right. Things got out of hand and the moderator closed the thread. In that order. To slam a Vietnam vet on a personal level is OK but to use the f word in response is enough to be banned. In my house it's by far the opposite. But this isn't my website so while here I'll live by the rules of the moderators and administrator. If I break the rules and Robin shows me the door, I'll be gone.

 

[shendren]

was it really vietnam bashing. there must of been a lot of stuff go on that we didn't see? did illflem really change a thread that he was involved in? sounds kind of fishy?... ... . did illflem really use the f word? how could a guy that seems so bright get sucked into a vietnam bashing kind of thing? the whole thing sounds wacky and out of character... .

 

[Steve M]

Twenty three years ago I sat up with a big burly bearded friend who was having nightmares of his experience in Vietnam. He was a medic and on his last flight in to pick up several wounded, he watched as the second chopper was shot down. He had become good friends with another medic on the other chopper. When the area was secured, he had to go back in and bag up what was left of the occupants of the second chopper along with his friend. That was just the worst. All I could do was let him tell it like he saw it. I couldn't relate and I didn't know what to say but it was all I could do to keep from breaking down myself sitting up at night with a man twice my size sobbing over such horrible experiences. I don't know what Bill experienced there. But I do know that most of us are too young to have been sent to Vietnam. Most probably weren't even alive when the war was going on. None of us knows what's in the memories of a war-time veteran. We should respect our Vietnam veterans if for no other reason we have no idea what they went through in a war nobody wanted.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Let me reiterate what I have already stated:

I think most of you are missing this fact. Bill made demands on Robin. Those demands were not met. He then took further actions on the forums which were unacceptable. His subscription was then refunded. He will not be returning. Out of respect for the contributions Bill made to the site over the years we will not go into further discussion or detail.

The actions that Bill took were not in the political thread that everyone is talking about in here. His actions warranted us removing him from the site. We have stated more in this case than we usually do when we have to remove someone from the site (which has happened ~12 times in the history of the site) which we did because Bill was a part of the management of the site. Out of respect for the parties involved since they cannot defend themselves we usually limit comment. As we have stated several times, out of respect for Bill's contributions we will not go into further discussion or detail. Nothing that is said here is going to change the facts and noone here knows all of the facts except for us and Bill. I am now closing both of these threads as further discussion will provide no benefit to anyone.



-Steve St. Laurent

Lead Moderator