A Tale of RV Quality - Not

[AClayton]

Alan,



Your first paragraph started out objectively making sense but then descended into rationalization of your purchase. Your second paragraph was purely defense of the product you purchased. That's fine, you can write whatever you wish. Readers interested in an RV will read and decide as they wish.



You may label my comments "condemning the manufacturer" if you wish but a careful reading of this entire thread will find no evidence that I did that. I will, however, continue to write my opinions here.



I would NOT purchase any product manufactured by Keystone, Forest River, or Thor, parent company of several RV labels or any product built on a Lippert frame or using ChiComm running gear.



Likewise I would not purchase any NuWa "HitchHiker" product, the brand I own, built on a Lippert frame using cheap ChiComm components. In model years 2006 through 2008 many, perhaps not all, HitchHiker II, HitchHiker LS, and "three digit" models of HitchHiker Discover America fifth wheels were built on Lippert frames not the high quality Young's frames NuWa "HitchHiker" had used for many years and now has returned to. The Lippert frame issue was one of the main factors I used in selecting my '07 32LKTG model which was built on a fine powder coated Youngs Welding frame.

Harvey,



You are absolutely correct about me being objective about purchasing an RV. However, I was also defending my purchase because I am very well aware that I purchased a rig that was not 100% quality manufacturing. The reason for me defending my purchase was because I simply could not afford a Toyhauler from a extremely reputable manufacturer. $20,000 dollars extra has got to come from somewhere and I did not want to finance that much money... ... ..... read: I had the money in cash coupled with my trade of my MH, to pay for my rig in full. Half my battle was fought when I came on here and learned most of the faults of the Lippert frame. I simply welded the gussets to the spring hangers and added the Dexter EZ Flex equalizers and even added an air-pin. I added the additional A/C and some other minor things inside to make my purchase more reliable for me.



As far as 'calling you out' specifically about 'condenming a manufacturer'... ... that was not intended for, nor directed to you. I was simply stating that MOST RV manufacturer's sell a 'good' ... ... . 'better' and ... ..... 'best' model for the consumer to choose. That will be based on their budget among other things. Hope this clarifies my position.



Alan

 

[HBarlow]

Alan,

Sorry, I assumed your comment was addressed to me.

 

[FPettijohn]

Harvey

Why is it always about YOU?

 

[dcoffman]

Well from reading all of these , I've come to the conculsion that is you can't afford a Mobile Suite, Hitch Hiker ,Teton,or any other high dollars unit they are all a "pos". When looking around this pass summer I found several medium priced units that are very nice. Montana,I've been told to stay away from, has been the #1 seller for 6 years now. They say don't buy anything with Lippert frames, that cuts out the majority of the units, unless you spend big bucks,which most of us don't have. I don't care what anyone has , they always thinks it's the best or they would not have bought it. I had a 95 Prowler that made an Alaskan trip, 14000 mile,in 2002 and had no problems. We buy what we can afford.

 

[RustyJC]

Actually, there are a number of decent quality, moderately priced brands - Jayco and Nash/Arctic Fox are a couple that immediately come to mind. There are others.



If you have enough truck to handle it, don't overlook the possibility of buying a well-maintained high-line unit that's a few years old. Let someone else take the depreciation hit and work the bugs out of it (and they all have some!) You can get a LOT of RV for the money if you don't have to buy new.



Rusty

 

[gerry]

I always find Harvey's comments interesting but was wondering what Harvey thinks of Airstream since they are now a Thor division? Are they a POS to?

 

[HBarlow]

I always find Harvey's comments interesting but was wondering what Harvey thinks of Airstream since they are now a Thor division? Are they a POS to?

I owned several Airstreams back in the '90s built both before and after Thor bought the company. I liked Airstreams well enough when I owned them. I like well built fifth wheels better but they are different products that meet different owner goals.

Thor's ownership doesn't really mean much. Thor is just an investment corporation that owns several RV brands. I doubt Thor executives know or care the first thing about RVs. Their interest is in earning large returns on their investment in the RV companies. They could just as well be invested in vacuum cleaner manufacturers, home builders, or drug stores. Their goal is to make money. If the RV companies are making money, which would have to include not being killed by lawsuits over product quality, I would guess that Thor execs are happy.

If anyone thinks that because Thor owns Forest River that makes Forest River a better or worse RV manufacturer I think they are mistaken.

Likewise, if Thor publishes high sounding rhetoric about RV quality I would take it with a grain of salt. Thor doesn't have a hand in the day to day operation of any of the RV companies it owns. It just owns a majority of the stock in each.

 

[gerry]

It seems to me that the ''bottom line'' is the prime motivation for just about any modern corporation. I never thought that there are many corporations that really try that hard to build a quality product but rather seem to build whatever they think will sell well with a minimal amount spent on labor to get the maximum profit. And the interesting part for me is that even when their profits are in decline from a poorly run company they still pay their execs even more to ''keep from loosing their talented'' execs.

 

[Grizzly]

For anyone thinking about investing a sizable amount of money on an RV whether it's a high dollar, medium dollar or low dollar or a new unit or a used unit, invest on a copy of the latest RV Consumer Group. It's a little bit of money worth spent. There are many high dollar RV's that are rated low and many low dollar RV's that are rated high.



Also, don't get a unit that's too big and heavy for your needs. If you're not going to Fulltime in one you don't need a 38' triple axle. They're harder to pull and maneuver and use more fuel to tow.



george

 

[dcoffman]

For anyone thinking about investing a sizable amount of money on an RV whether it's a high dollar, medium dollar or low dollar or a new unit or a used unit, invest on a copy of the latest RV Consumer Group. It's a little bit of money worth spent. There are many high dollar RV's that are rated low and many low dollar RV's that are rated high.



Also, don't get a unit that's too big and heavy for your needs. If you're not going to Fulltime in one you don't need a 38' triple axle. They're harder to pull and maneuver and use more fuel to tow.



george

Very good advice George. I was looking at a 2005 Mobile Suite. The dealer gave me a very good deal, but after looking at the empty weight and gvw I decided it was way to much for my truck. 12000 empty and 14500gvw. Thhat would be the tail wagging the dog for sure

 

[HBarlow]

It seems to me that the ''bottom line'' is the prime motivation for just about any modern corporation. I never thought that there are many corporations that really try that hard to build a quality product but rather seem to build whatever they think will sell well with a minimal amount spent on labor to get the maximum profit. And the interesting part for me is that even when their profits are in decline from a poorly run company they still pay their execs even more to ''keep from loosing their talented'' execs.

The profit motive is the only reason that any corporation, old or young, now or 100 years ago, exists.

A man might start a small business making the very best products he can make but his goal is to sell them profitably not to provide the highest wages he can pay. He cares about quality because that is what makes his products saleable.

Later, when his sales have outgrown his capacity, he takes his privately owned company public (public offering) by announcing an opportunity for the general public to buy shares in his company.

You and I, planning and saving for our retirement, decide to buy 1000 shares each in his company. Our goal is to double or triple the value of our stock over the next 20 years and then, when we retire, we want to earn retirement income by receiving dividends each quarter.

I don't know about you but I want my investment to grow and my dividends to be large. I would hope that the company continues to build quality products because I want them to sell and provide a profit to me. I don't give a hoot whether the company pays high wages, or not.

Profit is what drives our economy. Quality is great if it can be maintained but it often cannot be maintained because of labor issues and demands.