ABS = Will No Stop .....on dirt?

[MojaveJoe]

Was driving fast on a dirt road recently. While making an emergency stop the tires started skidding, but the abs kicked in and let them roll as designed. The problem came when all four of them began rolling and I barely stopped before going into paved road traffic.



Is this supposed to happen? If it is normal, they ought to warn people they won't be stopping anytime soon if all four wheels are in a position to skid. How dangerous is that? I would have stopped sooner with wheel skid in the dirt.



Also, the brake pedal makes a funky noise and vibration when ABS kicks in.



Is there something wrong with my braking system?



Bewildered



Joe

 

[Forrest Nearing]

nope... on a whole, ABS pretty much doesn't do anything but cause more wrecks than it prevents

 

[hammersley]

What's even worse is TRACTION CONTROL.....

Fantastic for the Idiot Starbucks crowd - an example from a recent car magazine made this an apparent example...



The testor had an SUV on the side of a road where there was loose gravel - when he tried to merge onto traffic - when he stepped on the gas - the traction control took over and made sure he didn't spin his tires - great EXCEPT with an 18 wheeler zeroing down on him - he also didn't have any acceleration - AND HE ALMOST GOT FLATTENED!

 

[Gifford]

ABS no good offroad

I almost totaled my wifes suburban in the Sierra nevada offroad. Going up a steep jeep trail near Bear Valley , CA was fine. Coming down the steepest section the ABS would not let the tires lockup and the car began to accelerate even though I was on the brakes. I literally had to engage the parking brake to slow the vehicle.

 

[betterthanstock]

Was driving fast on a dirt road recently. and I barely stopped before going into paved road traffic.

Your solution is to pump the brakes so hard that you lock all four at once. The ABS reacts to difference of speed between tires, so it thinks that you are stopped and will not release them. But then you will likely need four tires due to flat spotting, and you may slide sideways into ditch /cliff / rock face /trees etc.

Kind of a tough call. If you have the time, pump hard (to lock all four) and let go about 2-3 times per second, and steer to correct your skid. That saves your tires too, but not every one is that quick with their legs.

 

[McCRam]

I ran over a calf once going down a muddy hill. The tires wouldn't stop, even though I was barely moving. The calf survived, but the abs fuse did not. Abs only helps you stop in control. They never said anything about helping you stop faster.

 

[nickleinonen]

a "safety" switch wired in series with the abs fuse would make things easy... leave the abs working [so the dash lights are off] for normal driving, but when shat hits the fan, you flip the switch and disable the abs

 

[JCleary]

a "safety" switch wired in series with the abs fuse would make things easy... leave the abs working [so the dash lights are off] for normal driving, but when shat hits the fan, you flip the switch and disable the abs

Yes, a better option than pulling the fuse.



The other option is to run in 4wd. ABS will not operate in 4wd.

 

[MojaveJoe]

Well there you go. Now I know why having ABS offroad is a potential hazard.

All good ideas guys. I'll have to start trying some of them.



But ABS not in 4WD? I swear I was in 4WD when I almost had my accident.



Hmmmm?

Joe

 

[MCummings]

This issue has been around for a long time. I had the issue in my '98. 5, my Dad had the same issue in his '01 Duramax. Our '05 Dodge has been significantly better.



The '98. 5 actually let us drive right through a gate at only 15 MPH with over 100' of stopping distance. (We were towing a trailer, going downhill on gravel)



The Duramax was the worst ever, at 15 MPH it consistently took 50' or more to stop on loose gravel with a trailer. On the highway it performed great, but offroad it sucked bad!





The best suggestion I have heard is the "offroad switch". I think this should be standard on trucks.

I know on ~'00 Toyotas, they had a "clutch interlock" switch that, if pushed, allowed you to start the truck with the clutch out... .



I think we need this switch with all offroad packaged trucks, with a switch that resets to "ABS Active" when the key is cycled. In '00 or '01 when Dodge came out with the OffRoad 1500 with a small lift, 17" rims offroad tires, etc. That truck did not have ABS brakes,, not even an option. ABS was deleted when you selected the package.





My $. 02

Merrick

 

[ilovetrains]

ABS (and airbags) are disengaged in 4WD below 15 or 25 mph, cannot remember which. It is in the ECM.

 

[MCummings]

All of our trucks are 2wd except for the 05 Dodge.



Merrick

 

[DavidBurt]

The ABS on my truck activates when in 4wd. Just try driving on snow pack dirt roads stopping is not an option if you leave the fuse in. You just keep on coasting with the abs pump going mad. The switch is a good idea better than pulling the fuse when driving in adverse conditions, alot of the roads I drive are solid snow pack. If you cant skid the tires you arent stopping.

Dave

 

[EBottema]

Ha... . Another reason why you do not need ABS and why it is worthless. A 4 wheel mag had an article like this saying ABS was bad in dirt... ABS is really a joke, nobody needs it. It is best for people who have dirt for brains and do not know how to drive.

 

[RMachida]

The ABS on my truck activates when in 4wd. Just try driving on snow pack dirt roads stopping is not an option if you leave the fuse in. You just keep on coasting with the abs pump going mad. The switch is a good idea better than pulling the fuse when driving in adverse conditions, alot of the roads I drive are solid snow pack. If you cant skid the tires you arent stopping.

Dave

Agree, I'm in 4wd much of the time this time of year with our light dusting of snow over ice, I feel the ABS kicking in all the time. My old Ford truck would disable ABS when in 4wd, I liked that feature but I believe they got rid of it as well for the new improved ABS all the time.

 

[betterthanstock]

My 2000 Nissan Frontier (sold) had an accelerometer as part of the ABS circuit, and they advertised that it recognizes the type of surface (dry, ice, gravel) and if it can't slow it fast enough with ABS, it would allow you to lock up on gravel to stop faster.

I never got to actually test it in a panic stop.

I still think the "old school" way of pumping the brakes works with our Dodges, since ABS takes a second or two to unlock your wheel, so you can still pump 'em on gravel.

It's just that they tell us "don't pump brakes with ABS" which is true on hard pavement only.



As for ABS being worthless, I disagree, as I have watched TV footage of car after car sliding down an icy hill with front wheels locked up and trying to steer while piling up into the cars ahead with a clear lane to pass. Maybe ABS might have allowed someone to steer around that pile-up without going too fast down that icy slope. Or maybe pumping would have done the trick.



Perhaps it's time for us to get a little acquainted with our trucks' emergency handling characteristics, before we actually need to in a panic situation.

 

[MCummings]

ABS is really a joke, nobody needs it. It is best for people who have dirt for brains and do not know how to drive.

Soooo,, Does nobody need it, or only people with dirt for brains?



I know ALOT, and I mean ALOT of people with dirt for brains (when driving).

-------



ABS is supposed to let you steer when in a panic stop. I see people everyday, slam the brakes, ABS kicks in, and they just drive right into the back of whatever they were going to hit, when they thought of hitting the brakes.



My $. 02

Merrick



(That's a thread total of $. 04 now. )

 

[MojaveJoe]

Geesh and I thought I had a mechanical problem. Guess not.



So has anyone come up with a way to disconnect the ABS using a switch? It would be a great idea, but somehow I doubt you'll ever see it aftermarket. I also doubt Dodge will ever stop putting it in standard, since it would put them in a potential lawsuit situation for omitting a basic safety feature previously built in. Lets face it, the large majority of drivers probably use it to some advantage during the vehicle's life. So I guess us performance drivers, who actually 'work' our trucks on and off road, are basically "spiral fastened" .



Anyone have a nifty, convenient fix for turning it on and off?



Joe

 

[Bob4x4]

Yes, a better option than pulling the fuse.



The other option is to run in 4wd. ABS will not operate in 4wd.

not so... ... ..... but it will scare the crap out of you if you hit the brakes while you are bouncing around. :-laf



Bob

 

[Patriot_RAM]

I've had the same problems braking hard on gravel with my '04. The ABS made it impossible to stop hard. Even with the ABS help, the truck was still all over the road on the semi-loose gravel.



I have since upgraded my suspension to the Kore (DRC Race) suspension. Now, on the same roads, same places, same conditions, I have MUCH better control. The tires stay glued to the ground and I can stop much harder even before the ABS begins to take over. It stops must straighter than pre-Kore also.



I'm not saying this is a solution, but man... . Kore helped it sooo much!