2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission AC/DC Ripoff

[RT66DOC]

D/C Strikes Again



Lost my a/c 3 days ago, had it checked and found zero refrigerant. Filled it up with dye in the new charge and by today it had all leaked out. Checked for leaks with the light and found IT'S NOT THE EVAPORATOR , it all came out of the Schrader valve - the one up in front of the pass. side battery where you fill the system.



Now here's the DUMB part: called dealer and they said you can't buy just that one little valve (which, BTW easily unscrews) because it's a "Dealer Repair Only" and they have to replace the whole pipe, i. e. , the valve "is not available separately". I find this hard to believe. There MUST be someplace to buy the stupid valve. Anybody know? #@$%!

 

[ntillm01]

My charge ports don't have schraders. They are check balls that don't come out and are part of the hard line/fitting. Probably a later-model thing.



It could be the replacement part for yours is an "updated" part that uses the same check ball design. Or, the dealer is thinking what they need for newer trucks, and actually might have the part in his catalog if he'd look in the right place.



Also, the primary seal for those is actually the cap. Be sure to get one back on there is it is missing.



Good Luck,

Nohr

 

[SRadke]

Sorry I can't help. I'm just so bummed about not finding anything music related a thread of this title.

 

[RT66DOC]

Nohr, thanks for the reply. This thing on my truck sure unscrews - had it off and right back on. The cap over it seems OK. Good thought about them thinking it's a newer model. I'll check into that.



SRadke - You were expecting music? I thought it was a pretty catchy headline but the musical inference didn't really occur to me. :-laf

 

[SRadke]

s'all good



-Scott

 

[RT66DOC]

I've always been sorta partial to the Eagles myself.

 

[Casey Ray]

Originally posted by RT66DOC

I've always been sorta partial to the Eagles myself.

You don't like SMURF's with loud vocals and thundering guitars?

AC/DC rocks! Now as for DC's/AC... . it blows... . lol.





Casey

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Wonder what sort of internal valve a Shrader uses - looks like one used in a tire valve from outside appearance... You would think a decent Air Conditioning outfit would have, or could get them...

 

[Detroitiron]

RT66DOC, if it was mine, I'd take it to a mobile A/C shop, where that's all they do. Your truck is out of warranty since Moby Dick was a minnow, right? So go to a pro, where they aren't concerned about warranty, flat rate hours, etc. If you send me a PM, tell me any ID on the Schrader valve, and if I have one in my limited inventory, I'll mail it to you. I did have a few, and if there are any still in the box, I'd send 1 your way if it will help you out. Of course, you still need an evac and a refill.

Dave

 

[willyslover]

Tom. . send me a pic of the valve [I'll be gone for a couple days leaving in a couple mins]



I have a couple types of schrader valves in the shop. . maybe one of them will work ??

 

[ntillm01]

RT: You're welcome. I forgot to say that an auto parts store should have a stock of A/C schraders. The seal material is different than a tire valve stem, but are very similar. In fact the same tool is used to remove/install both. As mentioned also, an A/C shop will have them too.



AC/DC rocks!



So do 66 RT's

My personnal muscle is a 72 Road Runner.

 

[RT66DOC]

Muchas Gracias for all the kind replies. I was able to locate an identical replacement valve at Carquest this AM. For future reference in case this happens to anyone else it's Carquest Part #409575 - about 8 and a half bucks. Had the system evacuated and refilled. So far so good. Now let's see how long the evap holds out.



BTW, it IS true that D/C does not have the valve only. Newer trucks, as Nohr said, don't have a valve that is removable - it's part of the line. The guy at the D/C parts counter (who was very sympathetic and is the one who directed me to Carquest) said if a truck, new or older, comes in with this problem it gets the whole line replaced.



Thanks again, everybody. What a pit crew. Oo.

 

[rblomquist]

Nice post. I'm having a slow leak in my system as well and I was 99% sure it was coming out of the same shrader.

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Glad you found the part.



FYI I fix a/c systems as a "hobby" - ok - it's more than a hobby - have $$$$$ of equipment to do it. .



The valve from DC is a ball style valve - you have to unscrew the whole thing and install a new one.



Yes, on some of the newer trucks - this isn't the case, as well as the expantion orifice is part of the high side line - where as on the 96 it is replaceale - located in the front of the truck.



Here is a link to FJC's catalog - page 66 has a lot of valve cores on it. - the fittings I'm talking about are on the top of the page.



http://www.fjcinc.com/products.htm



Dan

 

[RT66DOC]

Thanks for the info Dan,



When I had the system evac and refilled yesterday the a/c mechanic said it pulled down to 28 inches (is it inches, like inches of Hg? whatever, you catch my drift) then he let it sit for over 1/2 an hour and it slipped to 26. He said that's not much of a loss - could have been from a fitting on the machine or some other potential slow leak in the system. Does that make sense?

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Yes, that makes sense.



I can't say if that is good or bad - based upon not knowing what your elevation is.



Generally - speaking - and a real quick explaination:



An a/c system is evacuated - meaning put into a vacuum - this is measured in inches of mercury or better yet - microns.



A micron gauge is accurate! - as in very accurate - especially between 28 - 30" mercury, where as most automotive a/c gauges will be ok. It is recommended to get to between 300-500 microns (if I remember w/o having my chart in front of me - that is about 29. 8" mercury) - at see level of course.



The lower the vacuum, the lower the boiling point for water. You want to remove all air and water from the system - both are BAD in there and can cause problems.



As a guide - you should put a vacuum pump on a system for 30-45 min - dual air/large systems - up to 1 1/2 hours. This ensures a good vacuum, - the duration is to remove any water vapor.



If the gauge goes above 1200-1500 either you have a leak, water is still boiling off, or the machine/equipment has a leak. Every so often the tech needs to check the equipment - and if it does have a leak FIX IT!!!. - big deal - mostly it is just new seals - 5 - 10 dollars.



IMHO - (In My Humble Opinion) - a 2" mercury rise is unacceptable! That needs to be tracked down and fixed!!! I sure hope it wasn't your system or you will be out of refrigerant again.



Sorry to knock on the tech - but that is a sloppy job.



The eaiest way to find a leak is when the system is under pressure. R 134a is harder to find than r-12. I use several methods - a freon detector (electronic device), UV dye, soap and water (bubbles). I also use a freon identifier (about a $2000 tool) to find out what is in the system - a mixture will never cool properly and it will contaminate my equipment. If it isn't pure r-12 or r-134 in a system - see ya later. I also use a tool to identify any sealers/stop leaks in a system. If I find them - see you later - I'm not ruining my equipment. NEVER NEVER NEVER use sealers or stop leaks!!!!!! That might fix it short term, but requires a TOTAL system replacement to fix it after that.



Also NEVER NEVER use something than r-12 or r-134 a in an a/c system. Yes, it might work for a while - but it will cause problems for you later. One of those being who will work on it. Some of the replacement refrigeants are not EPA SNAP approved refrigerants and contain hydrocarbons (propane, butane, etc). Even if they are EPA approved - that just means they are supposed to not harm the atmosphere - that doesn't mean they will work or work long term in an A/C system.



Sorry to be long, but I just thought more people need to be aware of the basics.



Dan

 

[RT66DOC]

Good info. OK, so it's inches Hg - like blood pressure. I can relate. My elevation is probably about 2 ft. above MSL. System is r-134 - always was, still is. The first time it was recharged they put the uv dye in and when it had all leaked out 2 days later they went over the whole system with the light. The only place that showed a leak was the valve on the fill port. They said there did not appear to be any leaks from the evap but that was determined from the fact that there was no dye around the hose - pass. side firewall. I told them if it still leaks they should take out the blower motor and check for dye in there. I read that tip in another thread. Does all this make sense?



If all the refrigerant leaks out again, I may get irritated.

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Originally posted by RT66DOC

... The only place that showed a leak was the valve on the fill port. They said there did not appear to be any leaks from the evap but that was determined from the fact that there was no dye around the hose - pass. side firewall. I told them if it still leaks they should take out the blower motor and check for dye in there. I read that tip in another thread. Does all this make sense?

Yes, it makes sense - the best way to check an evap for leaks is with an electronic sniffer/detector.

Originally posted by RT66DOC

If all the refrigerant leaks out again, I may get irritated.

You'll probably be warm too. If you were closer I'd say bring the thing over and we can check for sure.



Here is one of MANY ways to check for a evap leak. I can't post the link since you must be a member to even view the forums. It is from http://www.iatn.net/ a web site for automotive professionals.



I figured a cut and paste is much easier than me typing basically the same info.



Dan

--------------------

Thing one, make sure your leak detector works. Leak

detectors designed for R-12 don't work on R-134a.



Both R-12 and R-134a are heavier then air so the drain is

the best place to find the leak. You don't have to go

inside the drain. A good detector will sound off near the

drain if the evaporator, or tube, or expansion valve is

leaking.



First test to be sure the system has pressure. At least 90

lbs or so. The more the better. Then let the vehicle sit

for at least 15 minutes or so. In the sun if possible. I

put the tip near the drain and if it goes off I move away

until it stops then go back. If it goes off two or three

times like this, it's leaking.



Removing the blower motor resistor can also aid in finding

leaks.



Don't forget, some cars, Toyota for one, can leak at the

tube assembly between the firewall and the expansion valve.



And Georges Idea of putting the tip near the drain then

closing the door sounds like a good idea. I wish I had

thought of that. (vbg)



If you do check at the vents, first run the A/C on

recirculate on the lowest speed then kill the engine and

let it sit 15 minutes or so. Then put the tip in the lowest

and nearest vent to the evaporator and with the leak

detector on, turn on the key. You only get one shot on a

small leak, so be ready.