Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Acceptable transmission Fluids?

[DavidWhite]

I do the same. 5W-30 Syn in the xfer case.

 

[John]

Type 4 synthetic fluid was not required for the 47RE untill 2001 model year.

Jim, I may be wrong but...



I have a '98. 5 2500 4x4 24V Ram equipped with the 47RE and it was spec'd to use ATF+3 ATF. The very next year (if memory serves), in 1999, DC changed the spec'd ATF to ATF+4.

 

[BTowler]

Actually, DC changed the requirement for all vehicles except some minivans to atf+4, including previous models in order to maintain warranty. A nice little money making ploy for them since they were the only source and refused to license the formulation to anyone else.

 

[SAndreasen]

DTT does not reccomend +4 because of the friction modifiers that are in it. I believe this is for all 47re's. I personally use +4 & at 135,000 it shifts like new. We see -20 here & I feel better with synthetic fluid. I am going to change to Valvoline synthetic as I can get it for about $6. 00 a quart. I use the Cummins/Valvoline Extreme 5/40 & this is superb oil for the engine. Holds viscosity as well as 15/40 Rotella. When I buy a DTT trans. I will use the +3 as Bill says. Randy

my dtt builder told me to only use atf t4 in the transmission and nothing else ? anyway how do you like your dtt transmission?

 

[PatrickHenry]

Let me throw everyone for a loop. I use John Deere Hy-guard trans-hyd fluid in mine.

Thats what I use in my tractor. Works like a charm in the tractor. Don't know what it would do in an automatic.

 

[OL RATLR]

ATF +3 With a DTT transmission.

 

[Joe G.]

Let me throw everyone for a loop. I use John Deere Hy-guard trans-hyd fluid in mine. I tried +3, +4, dex/mercon, with lube guard & without. ATF does not lubricate worth a crap! The Trans-hyd fluid lubricates better, cools better, and lasts longer. Oh yeah, its VERY inexpensive! .

That's what I run in mine.

 

[SAndreasen]

how long have you been running hygard in your transmission? just wanted to know if you have had any problems with it ?

 

[DavidWhite]

I've been running the Hy-guard for about 6-mos. now, and like it. It really keeps the temp down.

 

[amsoilman]

Actually, DC changed the requirement for all vehicles except some minivans to atf+4, including previous models in order to maintain warranty. A nice little money making ploy for them since they were the only source and refused to license the formulation to anyone else.

There was an SAE paper written on the ATF+4 Automatic Transmission Fluid.



The initial development for ATF+4 was done using Shell's (XHVI) Xtra High Viscosity Index base oil, which is a Group III base oil. Much later other Group III base oils were approved. (At the time, SK in Korea and Petro Canada were the only additional approved base oil suppliers. )



The use of Group III base oils is probably the leading cause for ATF+4 being a more expensive fluid than ATF+3 (which uses a Group II base oil).



Lubrizol developed a new shear-stable viscosity index (VI) improver

specifically for ATF+4. The initial tests of this VI improver in the

MS9602 test fluids were so remarkable that Chrysler modified the then-current ATF+2 spec (MS7176D) to include it. Thus ATF+3 (MS7176E) fluid was born; it remained the factory fill until the introduction of ATF+4.

In testing done during development of ATF+4, Chrysler noted the following viscosity loss from shearing for the following Automatic Transmission Fluids using the 20 hour KRL Shear Test:



Dexron III - 40% loss

Mercon V - 19% loss

Type 7176D - 32% loss

Type 7176E - 14% loss

Type 9602 - 10% loss



You can see what a significant impact the new viscosity improver had on ATF+3 when you compare the 7176D and 7176E numbers. From the standpoint of viscosity loss alone you can see why Dexron III should not be used in transmissions that require ATF+3 or ATF+4.



In terms of other basic performance parameters, ATF+3 (7176E) comes the closest to ATF+4, with Ford’s Mercon V a close second. [Which doesn’t mean that Mercon is acceptable. ]



The goal in developing ATF+4 was to create a fluid that would match the performance characteristics of the current fluid (Type 7176D), but would retain those characteristics for at least 100,000 miles. The paper specifically notes that the anti-shudder properties of ATF+3 are usually degraded enough by 30,000 miles to cause noticeable shudder.



Contrary to popular myth, one of the stated goals of Type 9602/ATF+4 fluids was that it would have the same frictional characteristics as ATF+3. The paper explicitly states that this was because new clutch materials would not be introduced for this fluid and it had to be backwards compatible with ATF+3. Graphs in the paper show that the friction coefficient of fresh ATF+3 and ATF+4 is essentially identical, but as the fluid ages ATF+4 retains the “as new” coefficient while ATF+3 degrades.

The paper noted that one alternative was to use synthetic Group IV base stock, which are even more expensive than the ATF+4 solution, which provided Group IV style performance from Group III stock. ATF+4 meets strict low-temperature, oxidation, and volatility performance requirements and relatively low cost — believe it or not.

Amsoil’s ATF+4 uses the Group IV base fluid.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[tgee]

I run Allison Transynd in mine, noticed cooler temps, but no difference in shift quality. My trans is an ATS stage 4, ATS didn't have a problem with the Allison synthetic stuff. Anyone else out there run it?

 

[Doug1810]

I have been told mopar atf +4 only not sure hyd-trans fluids are very tricky because a small change in any of the components can make a big diff . spend $5000 on a trans and worry about $75 ?

 

[SAndreasen]

i have to agree i just spent almost five thousand dollars on my transmission so i think ill spend the 3 hundred buks and get the rite oil . mopar atf is over 40 dollars a gallon and my transmission takes almost seven gallons but its worth it to use the rite oil i think

 

[SAndreasen]

I've been running the Hy-guard for about 6-mos. now, and like it. It really keeps the temp down.

well as i have said i just put a new transmission in and cost almost five thousand dollars so im goina keep usin the atf 4 in it but i am going to hy gaurd in the transfer case it has a small gasket leak and that should seal it.

 

[jjohn]

my transmission takes almost seven gallons but its worth it to use the rite oil i think

Holy Crap SAndreasen! My 02 with a deep pan only takes 17 quarts or 4. 25 Gallons. What Transmission and/or add-ons "or what ever" takes your capacity to 7 gallons of fluid? Elaborate cooling system maybe?



Anyway I have 125,000 on my 2002 transmission. After a full DTT build at around 30K miles I started using Valvoline ATF+3 for no particular reason. When Valvoline transitioned to producing ATF+4 only… that’s what I used (last month it was $3. 49 a quart). I have always done a full service roughly every 15K miles and the fluid has always been in great shape.



I have been tempted to use the generic label “Dexron III/Mercon/ATF+3” @ the local farm and ranch store for $22 per 2 gallon jug, ($2. 75 a quart) but can’t bring myself to do it. However I know of one 12 Valve with a DTT that tows hard and Plays hard with just under 300,000 miles and always had Dexron III with regular service. So in my mind fluid is fluid as long as you stay within its temperature spec and change it when you should.

 

[Fireman Dave]

Walmart now carries Mopar ATF+4 for under $5. 00 a quart. It's the identical same Mopar bottle that the dealer sells. That beats my dealer by more than $2. 00 a quart.

 

[Silver Bullet Ram]

Wal Mart sell ATF 4... ..... shockingly enough its a Mopar brand... . never thought I would see they day when Wal mart started selling mopar stuff.

 

[DavidWhite]

Still going strong.