Actual Killer Dowel Pin Statistic

[DieselB59]

It's a lot worse than what I thought. I got a phone call from Cummins in reference to a dowel pin victim that we had just finished up tonight, asking if we had pictures, etc. He said that the actual statistic for the dowel pin occurrences is 4%, which is really low..... lower than oil related failures... . but not low enough. So those of us who are sitting on the fence, the insurance of getting the job done is much easier on the mind than a new engine is... . or your engine being removed and repaired per hour.

 

[eGarwood]

4%

Sure... as is my usual luck... if I didn't have bad luck I'd have none at all. If only 4% of 800,000 people were going to win a million dollars, I'd be in the 96%tile range... . but 96% of Cummins motors never have a KDP problem... I'm in the 4% population and wasted my housing... . Finally I think that # is WAY low... Somebody hiding something?????????????????????????????????????????????

NAAA, D/C would NEVER do that!!!!!!!!

 

[Snow man]

I love my Cummins engine,but that 4%is way to high,I feel something should be done vollentarily by Cummins,this was clearly a manufacturing defect ,and the 100K thing is a cop ou,that same engine warrantied for 150=K in MD trucks,and its a MD engine. I have a 24V now,but if iapid almost 5K for the option,and then had to lay out 2K for the fix(if i wasnt a mechanic),id be ******. Even GM stepped up to the plate,and offered 11 yr/120K mile warranty on the DS4 injection sytem,and the entire engine in 6. 5 turbo,built from 94-98. I feel for all of you have had problems withte KDP,or even if you dont,Id have to tab it,if i had one,Im the type that would worry about it everytime I fired it up,until i tabbed it. IMHO,It would be totally fair for Cummins to pay for the existing trucks to ber tabbed,and pay the owners of those who have done theres already,and pay 1/2 of the cost on those that have failed between 100-200K,especially since this engine is advertised as a 300-400K engine. Again I love my Cummins,but this is happening to much lately,and will only get worse.

 

[illflem]

NW list for the jig is getting shorter, do something before it's too late.

 

[eGarwood]

24 Valve

Hey SnowMan... I have talked to a number of IN-THE-KNOW guys and when I asked them if the KDP was a 12V only problem they ALL said NO! I wouldn't count my chicks just yet. I know if I had a 24V truck I would DEFINETLY check out my KDP... pull the cover and make D*MN sure the housing was "necked down" at the dowel!!!! Better safe than sorry... Ed3(a sorry one)

 

[Joe G.]

Snow man,



You should read the comments I received from a guy who works in a Cummins shop about why Cummins takes care of other customers that have a KDP problem but not Dodge.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34069



This one is Dodge's responsibility and they are ducking it.

 

[pathaymond]

Hello all I have posted in a diff thread trying to find out how to get on the list for my area. I understand the jig fix to be externally done. I am new here so still learning my way around but I am sure there is a thread to more info on this subject. in the interm I feel the clock ticking and would like to contact a list manager for my area. . any input here will be appreciated. I would hate to loose a engine due to a simple pin. . At some point maybe someone will decide we as customers should be taken great care of and deficiencies like this will be fixed for free but then do we want them under our hood?? just my two cents... thanks in advance Patrick

 

[The patriot]

DieselB59 Chris......

Chris, I was talking to some guys at the Englishtown get together , and they said something about the KDP not being as much of a concearn on certain newer blocks. They said something about a double rib at the bottom of the block means it's the new type??

Is this true, and can you post some pictures of what to look for?

Mine is one of the last 12 valves, and this is what I'm hoping for. :{

Thanks

Eric

 

[BCFAST]

4%?

I think that's a half truth; 14%, 24%,... 40%... ... those all have a '4' in them too!

 

[Snow man]

I was told that it hasbeen fixed on 24valves,but if one is going to fall out,it will be on mine,and at 100,001 miles,too. or 5 yrs,and 1 day. You should be seeing at least 30psi boost in OD WOT between 1800-2400

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

The 4 percent number is the number that have failed to date. As the fleet of engines continue to accumulate operating time or start/shutdown thermal cycles there will be additional failures in those that have not failed yet. I would not be suprised if the failure rate reached 10 percent.



I tabbed my KDP last week, the dowel pin had not moved. It took about 8 hours with chasing dropped pieces, boogering the first seal, looking for sleeve sealant, and other distractions.



I understand that at some time in the 24 valve production cycle the gear cover dowel pin hole had a reduced diameter on the front surface. This give the equivalent of a built in tab fix.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Chris, why did you mention removing the engine to replace the gear housing? My friend at a local dealership has done about a dozen gear housings that were broken by the dowel pin problem. It takes him about 1 day, engine in the truck.

 

[DieselB59]

You know, I tried that attempt first before removing engine, but the oil pan gasket came partly along with the case, and WE don't do things slipshod like put the gasket back with a chunk of RTV on it and "hope" it holds up, so it's just good sense to have the engine out of the vehicle. While it's out, it also makes good sense to be able to turn the engine over to remove the cam, so the tappets are in their most upward position. I took a shortcut there and pulled them up with a wooden dowel, while putting a hose clamp around them with the engine still in the truck. Having the pan off also helps putting the camshaft back in so that you don't whack one of the bearings when trying to steer in that long shaft. This ain't no V8 with the short cam. It also took us a day in total hours to R&R the engine. Guys on flat labor rate will also pull an entire drivetrain to do a clutch job, driveshafts still attached, all in one piece. It doesn't matter to a flat rate guy what the proper service technique is, just how much money he can earn in less hours. The customer still ends up paying for a 16 hour job. The Cummins B series engine shop manual states: To remove camshaft, first remove engine from vehicle.

 

[Cooker]

I'll get in here too.



PM me to get on a KDP list in the Midwest region.