added 5 disc TC and now I'm slower!!

[TDLHoussaye]

I am runninng a 04. 5 with 3. 73, 285 BFGs, 48re, edge Hot juice, afe filter with ATS arc intake, center pod gauges and mbrp exhaust. My best time with standard juice was 0-60 in 7. 7 seconds. I upgraded to HOT juice and saw a 8% slip on my first run and 92% backdown. My transmission has never made it past 190 degrees. I run Amsoil in everything. I decided to give the ATS 5 star torque converter a try. I was told it would shift a lot firmer than stock and should shave a considerable time off my performance numbers. With the hot juice on 5, engine temp at 200 and trans temp at 160 I ran 0-60 in 8. 4 seconds!! Now, I'm not bashing ATS, but I am concerned about my trucks transmission. I don't want to BANG through gears, but with the 5-star my shifts don't deem any different than stock. When I'm at WOT my truck seems to practically miss second gear. Tach will read 3200 to 3300 will in first and stay there till third. Is a valve body the next thing or should I save for impending transmission failure. I look forward to your words of wisdom...

 

[jwilliams3]

So you just added a torque converter and thats it?

 

[TDLHoussaye]

yep, that's it. I was told that a TC alone would markebly change my shifts and a VB would further firm up the shifts. I have no problem ordering a VB from any of the reputable comanies out there... I just don't want to crank up my transmission pressures on a failing transmission. My tanny shifts fine under low throttle-- it's just sucks at WOT. Specifically second gear. When the transmission shifts to third it pulls hard. I just changed the transmission fluid when swapping the TC and it looked burnt- I blamed it on the stock TC slipping. Could it be some internal clutches slipping? I run the Mag hytex extra capacity transmission pan that added 4 quarts over stock. Like i said my transmission never rarely goes over 160 degrees.

 

[RobertP]

i would run a line pressure test to make sure every thing is up to par.

also i would definitely look towards a valve body and some billet shafts.

 

[sick_ram]

To really get the full effect from that T/C you really need to upgrade your valve body, and if you really want your transmission to come alive get a CO- pilot which is a T/C lock-up controller. Then you can really have some fun.

 

[bmoeller]

Having a better TC (getting more power through it, more effieciently) on a otherwise stock transmission isn't really a good idea. If the TC clutch doesn't slip, something else will. Needs higher line preures so the clutch packs won't slip.



Before I bought the Goerends transmission/tc, my fluid smelled and looked just fine. Found the stocker had 2 burnt clutch packs and a bad sun gear in the O/D section.

 

[WDimig]

do it right the first time, have a repuatble builder go through the transmission, beef up and replace the clutches, bands, and all other goodies, if you going to be hot rodding, at least a billet input, generally if they go, so does the front pump, and your new $$$ converter, if you got the cash, put a billet intermediate and output, and have them play around with the VB, and you'll have a very reliable transmission up too and over 500hp.



wes

 

[TDLHoussaye]

OK. I'll order a valve body on monday. Any suggestions? I don't want to slam gears... just firmer more precise shifts. If that doesn't put a smile on my face then I'll save for a complete transmission minus the then already purchased TC and VB. I don't think the quality products of ATS, DTT, georends or sun coast will conflict with each other. TC are for stength, I think ATS is as good as the others there. VB is more art with careful balance of pressure and shift points... I'm not sure whose the best since that is such a ambiguous preference. OK which vb is best for daily driver that likes to get on the skinny pedal on a daily basis? I'll start saving for the full transmission, billet input shaft and flexplate in the meantime.

 

[WDimig]

it doesent necesisarily matter who's VB you have, it's how it's built, and what springs are used internally, line pressure is mostly the cause of hard shifting, more notecably in single disc converter setups suchs as dtt, they have to use more line pressure for the converter to hold the power, without slipping, you still need increased line presure with a triple disc, or five disc converter, but not as much as you would with a single disc converter. you can buy VB from companies who have them setup for things like racing or towing, if your looking for a postive firm shift, i would go with a towing VB setup, a racing setup will have a more agressive shift, and a higher line pressure, but you can have the same things done to the stock VB that are done to the VB you can purchase that is already setup.



wes

 

[zstroken]

Line pressures are a small part of firm shifting. Shift firmness is primarily controlled by orifice size. Line pressures do effect them, but nothing like doubling the size of an orifice for fill time.

 

[TDLHoussaye]

D you suppose my weak shift into second is a result of low line pressure and not a failing second gear band?

 

[WDimig]

thanks for clearing that up zstroken.



wes

 

[Diesel Power]

NADP valve body all the way :-laf

 

[Morse]

I did an HTS shift kit in my 05. . It does sometimes shift hard, though they told me it would when I bought it. I'm just running a shift kit, suncoast converter, and a flexplate. It's running 13. 50's now in my dually. . I've made a lot of passes and so far, so good. .

 

[TDLHoussaye]

are any VB adjustable or are they set it and forget it? Any way to guage firmness. I searched the forums and found nothing. Something like... .

stock is x psi at idle and xx at wot

ats tow is blash

ats race is blah

nadp is... .

line up some numbers or feedback. I want to get this thing on the way soon. bear in mind i will be getting a full built transmission and billet pieces in about 6 months when my money tree sprouts some new leaves!! keep the info coming i need your advise!!!

 

[Bob Wagner]

do yourself a favor before you spend the bucks. call each vendor. I've had dtt since 2000



Bill Kondolay toll free 866 504 4002 free advice daily :-laf

 

[Diesel Power]

are any VB adjustable or are they set it and forget it? Any way to guage firmness. I searched the forums and found nothing. Something like... .

stock is x psi at idle and xx at wot

ats tow is blash

ats race is blah

nadp is... .

line up some numbers or feedback. I want to get this thing on the way soon. bear in mind i will be getting a full built transmission and billet pieces in about 6 months when my money tree sprouts some new leaves!! keep the info coming i need your advise!!!

you answer to this is yes vb is adjustable--to an extent, or within the working range of the vb, a stocker will not work well. the internals of the vb need to be modded. nadp is north american diesel performance, they are based out of canada. the owner of the shop has one of the fastest common rail trucks in the country. all the transmission products that comes from there is top notch. there is a link on the bottom of my sig. you can call me for more info or priceing. thanks

 

[zstroken]

I hate to be the one to say this, but if you have an ATS convertor, then I would probably put in an ATS VB. Not that another one won't work, but if you have any issues it could end up in a finger pointing session of what is the problem. Like Wagner said call all of the vendors. I have to recommend Dave Goerend because of the product, person, and customer service. I called around, and one company didn't seem very interested, and another company tried to scare you "if you don't buy this then it will never work". I didn't contact NADP so can't comment on them.

 

[TDLHoussaye]

ats has a 100k warranty and it doesn't say anything about voiding the warranty if i change the VB. I purchased the ats because i felt it had the most innovative TC around. I considered it the "clutch" of my powertrain and the VB would be my "short-throw shifter". I didn't worry about compatability- just picking the best parts from the best vendors. My ATS TC purchase my have been a little premature, but it's in there now and I'll still have to make a VB decision soon.

 

[zstroken]

I wasn't saying it would void your warranty, but if you get into an issue of something in the transmission not being quite right, say it is not always locking up, then who do you go to?? VB guy or TC guy. I am not saying it will be an issue, 99% of the time you will be problem free with both, just a point that I have gotten into before with someone pump and someones else injectors.