Adding 30 wieght Non-Detergent oil to full tank of fuel????

[Max Wedge]

A mechanic for a local Cummins Shop and I were talking last night and he said that adding 1 quart of 30 wt Non-detergent motor oil to about 30 gallons of fuel will improve performance, and help out the VP44 pump.



Now I have always (since reading owners manual) been of the impression that nothing is to be added to the fuel, except the occasional "Fuel Treatment" stuff that is commercially available.



I know this had been discussed before, but has anyone tried it? And what are the effects?



Max



PS Cummins ISX 600 has an option that will burn off a little oil while its running and replace it with fresh oil from a reserve tank. so wouldn't it be the same thing?

 

[Scott Lowe]

Back in 1990 I was in the desert of Saudi Arabia with the Seabees and, believe it or not, we could not get any diesel fuel. All we could get was jet fuel (JP8 and JP5). The difference between the jet fuel and diesel is the lubricant qualities of diesel are missing in jet fuel. Needless to say that our 6. 2 liter chevy diesels all had injector and fule pump failures. One of my mechanics suggested adding a quart of 30 wieght oil to the JP fuel... well it worked and we did not have problems after that. My point is, why do that to perfectly good diesel fuel? Maybe your mechanic was the same guy who got my equipment off deadline in the desert...

 

[MikeR]

Someone on this board did this for a while and said some of the oil collected on the bottom of the tank and filter housing making a slimey mess.



-Mike

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Scott Lowe, Email me!, i am in the Sebees too and i drill at Lakehurst sometimes. I cant find you email adress. Mine is -- email address removed --

 

[LBTRS]

Squids

Hey guys,



Good to see some fellow Navy guys around here. I'm currently on active duty. I'm a Aviation Electronics Technican when I'm not on Recruiting Duty (as I am right now).



See ya,

 

[Mundgyver]

Ah Saudi, I remember it well. Worked with 46's in the Corps. Oil in the Jet fuel works very well to a point. Most military diesels are capable of multi fuel ops. For us it was a matter of setting up the pumps and injectors on the rigs we used. As far as using oil in your current diesel with regular diesel fuel, Cummins makes a device that set you up for oil changes at around 175,000 if I remember right. You have a holding tank for fresh oil. The device will automatically remove a pre-measured amount of oil from your engine and replace it with fresh oil. The old oil is injected into the fuel tank to be burned up with the fuel. This is used on big commercial stuff.



525,000-Mile (844,906 km) CENTINEL™ System: Advanced engine oil management system takes extended service intervals to new lengths. Eliminates downtime and disposal headaches. Electronic controls and plumbing use existing wiring harness connectors and ECM.



Here is the site where I found the above info.



http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/trucks/isx.cfm





Have fun lookin at this stuff

 

[jstyer]

Oil in Diesel

I had to do this myself on my '99 when I stopped a filling station that allowed advertisers to place covers on the pump nozzles. To make a long story short, they put a green cover (standrd color for the diesel nozzle) on the high test nozzle, and being in hurry and not looking at anything but the color, started to fill my truck and while looking at the pump realized after 7. 5 gallons that it was not diesel. I topped off tank and contacted CUMMINS and the tech told me that as an option to draining the tank, to add 30W non-detergent to prevent pump failure. Well it worked and got my stupid a$$ out of a jamb and the truck never experienced any problems for the next 35K miles until I got my '01 ETH/DEE. As a matter of fact, this is the incident that got me to join the TDR. Boy am I glad I made this short. Sorry for the rambling.

 

[Deezal Man]

Max,



You won't see better "performance". But a little extra lube for the pump surely can't hurt.



Question is, what is the payback for your investment?



Cummins designed the pump to work with todays blend of Diesel fuel.



Think you'll have the truck long enough to see those few extra miles from the pump? Better still, what have you spent in oil till that very day? Buck here... . buck there...



Something to consider.

 

[Valkyrie99]

Interesting----------



A little over 10 years ago I met a guy with an old Mercedes who was putting a quart of ATF in every tank of fuel. He had 400K+ on the car. It would be interesting to talk to him today.

 

[DHenry]

Centinal firmware design

Originally posted by Mundgyver

525,000-Mile (844,906 km) CENTINEL™ System: Advanced engine oil management system takes extended service intervals to new lengths. Eliminates downtime and disposal headaches. Electronic controls and plumbing use existing wiring harness connectors and ECM.

And for any of you pencil-necked geek-nerds like me (I guess a 17. 5" neck doesn't qualify me as pencil-necked), in the July issue of Embedded Systems Programming magazine, there is an article about the design of this very successful product. I didn't post it before because I didn't know if the TDR audience would be interested in design versus practical usage. If you are interested, here's a link to the article.



Inside Look: Centinel



"This month features a device called Centinel, a system that works to eliminate oil changes for big diesel trucks and other diesel powered equipment. This product has been an amazing success, and chances are you've passed or been passed by trucks with this hardware built in. Enjoy the inside look. " ...

 

[TowPro]

Re: Centinal firmware design

I will try to add something to several things I saw posted here.



ATF: ATF has a friction modifier that will actualy scratch the bores of your injection pump as it passes through the pump. This is not a good thing. Several VW rabbit diesel guys tried this in the 80's with bad results.



Engine Oil: Don't know of any advantage or disavantage to this.



2 stroke oil: I have heard of several VW guys doing this and gaining over 10% in mileage! Plus it is made to burn and will not scratch the pump.



I personaly just tried some Amsoil Citain booster in the last tank. It works better then Howls cleaner, at about 1/2 the cost. Really made a difference in that old 24V sound!

 

[Oil Man]

As for the non-detergent oil being added to the fuel for use as a lubricant. I would not recommend that kind of lubricant. The non-detergent oil usually a SAE 30 is only a cheep oil for older cars that can't run a detergent type of oil or that does not have a filter.

The types of lubricants that are in a regular fuel additive are not that thick and are additive types of lubricants to prevent scuffing. The non-detergent type of oil will not do this very well.



As for the ATF type of solution, I would not recommend that either. The ATF oil has additives that can deposit themselves on your valves or buildup on the valves causing other problems.



I believe that the best fuel additive is one that was made for diesel fuel only and not one that is made for diesel and gas combined. The one that I would recommend is the LE DCI+. Mag Hytec (818-786-8325) carries it in pint bottles for about $7. 00 per bottle and that pint bottle treats 125 gallons of fuel. It not only has the right kind of lubricity additive but it has many other benefits as well, like a combustion improver to promote a more complete fuel burn which increases power and leaves less soot to get into your engine oil.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

We used to run Marvel Mystery Oil in smaller diesels with good results.

 

[Valkyrie99]

I used to use Marvel in my old '79 Goldwing Motorcycle to keep the CV carb slides from sticking. It was an accepted method for older engines. Lots of miles with no problems.



However I do agree that with the cost to replace the injection pump or to do a complete rebuild, the cost of the actual diesel additive is cheap. Let the VW and Mercedes guys do the experimenting.

 

[vross]

I prefere Stanadyne as an additive for the diesel. My older 6. 2 GM handles marvel mystery just fine, but I use the Stanadyne in the ISB. You want to add lubricity to dry diesel fuel. Our #1 Arctic diesel fuel is very dry and hard on pumps. Know your fuel and stick to a quality diesel additive.

 

[JohnE]

We supply a lot of oil replenishment systems on our diesel & CNG powered units. IMHO they are more trouble than worth the benefit. If you want extended oil change intervals, change the filter and add to topoff. CENTINEL is patterned for over the road trucks duty cycles that also have 5 gallon crankcase capacities.



ATF is the old scam to try and justify red fuel.



The best results I've ever had with additives is from Cummins® Premium Plus. Very expensive compared to many others is the only downside.



John

<font size=1>I am not an employee of nor affiliated with Cummins Co. </font>

 

[Mundgyver]

I've seen oil added in the service as I said before, but that was for a particular reason in a very harsh area of the world. As far as adding oil to your fuel these days, why do it? The only additive I use is Power Service and then only when I go on a long trip. I use it for the water dispersion qualities. Other wise I do not worry about it. Diesel Fuel today is much better than it was 10 years ago in it makeup. It has everything you need already. Seems like adding oil will just gum up the works in the long run.

 

[JohnE]

Max;



Ask your Cummins buddy if he dealt with CAPS injection pump failures. CAPS is the Cummins equivalent to the Bosch rotary pump. It is on the ISC (8. 3 l) we install. The recalls and cost to Cummins is very high.



I normally use Power Service in every tank during the summer. It is relatively inexpensive (3. 5&cent; - 8&cent; per gallon) and easy to to find unlike many brands.



John