Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Adjusted Timing 1st Time & succeeded

[MAllen]

Well,

I took on timing my engine last night and had some difficulties but worked around them. After getting the barring tool in I attempted to look for top dead center by pushing the timing pin in and had no luck. After removing the pin and greasing it up and trying to insert it again, I had no luck. That thing can be a pain. Don't know if anyone else has done this, but I took a mirror and flashlight and laid on my back and lined it up by looking in the timing hole and lined the hole in the gear with the timing pin slot. Can someone explain why that dang pin won't fall in that hole?



I decided to time the engine because my mpg's dropped to avg of 16 and the truck would spit and sputter in the cold. Well I'll just say, I don't know wether to blame the last person who timed it or the timing slipped or both. The plunger lift at top dead center was only 3. 9mm which equates to timing under 8. 5 degrees. No wonder the truck ran so horrible. Now that I got it adjusted back to 15 degrees, the truck runs like a top again.



For any other first timers, adjusting your timing was a breeze and the mirror method works great to find tdc. I also payed extra attention to getting the pump shaft super clean and dry before retorqing so there won't be any slippage. Just thought I would post these comments from my experience last night.

 

[PRattenbury]

Glad to hear things went relatively well. I had a bit of trouble with my timing pin as well, because it fit so snugly in the hole. So I sanded it down enough to where it would go in without a big fight. Getting the pump gear and shaft clean is important. Just thought I'd mention a new lockwasher is also cheap insurance. It should be replaced regardless of appearance. The part is too cheap not to do it while you're there for the trouble it can save. The torque value on the nut by the book is a bit low, too, I've been told. Don't remember what the 'better' value was right away, though. It's been a while.

 

[MAllen]

would it hurt to just take that nut off & put the new lock washer & retorque, or should the gear be pulled & then retorque.

 

[Woodenhead]

Nice work! I hope mine goes well when I finally get the time to do it. Who did you buy the timing kit from? I think I'll either pull an injector or drop a valve and use a dial indicator to make sure I have TDC as accurate as possible. I busted my timing trying to use it to set the valves at one time, then I used the dropped valve method and marked the balancer.



Mike

 

[tony597fitter]

Good work on the timing. Are you sure the pin isnt broke? When it breaks, its hard to tell, its just a little nub that fits in the hole. Also, you should time your truck with the drop valve method. I tried it once with the pin, and you could stil bar the engine over (before breaking the pin). It would show up to a 1/2 of a mm difference belive it or not.

Also when you do the drop valve, you put the marks on the harmonic balancer and then if you ever need to find TDC again you dont have to use the pin.

 

[PRattenbury]

would it hurt to just take that nut off & put the new lock washer & retorque, or should the gear be pulled & then retorque.

Might as well leave it alone if it's running well. If you want to be reasonably sure it isn't going to slip, just take it for as hard a romp as you would ever be willing to give it close to home or shop. If you romp it hard and it doesn't slip, you'll most likely be fine. If it does slip, well, you needed to do it anyway. I mean, if you enjoy fooling with it anyway, and have the time (I never do, sadly) buy a new lockwasher, take the nut and washer off, check the timing, (the gear will be stuck on the shaft and shouldn't move), replace the washer and nut, and hopefully someone can tell you the 'better' torque value. Then you know you're good for sure.

 

[MAllen]

I did mark the harminic balancer with tdc & marked it with a corresponding mark on the frame that have to line up perfectly with a framing square. Also since I used the method to find tdc by using a mirror & lining up the hole in the gear with the timing pin hole after I removed the timing pin, should I still be concerned that what I did is accurate?

 

[MAllen]

the timing kit & barring tool came from snap on. I actually borrowed mine from a guy in Pennsylvania & he mailed them to me. He just charged $50 to use them & he paid shipping one way. You can buy them online for $300 if you would like.

 

[tony597fitter]

The thing is, the plastic pin flexes. That is how it will be off. I have done timing quite a few times with the pin and without. I just find I feel beter doing it with the drop valve method.

Another tip is to mark it at the crank position sensor, that way you dont need any squares or pointers.



If you look at the timing chart, and figure the pin will flex . 3mm you could be at 13. 5* on the low side or 16. 5 on the high side.

Its easy enough to check and redo.

 

[JJanetka]

Are you all changing the delivery valve washer and if so does anyone know the cummins part number? The truck garage I get my cummins parts from will only order for me if I have a part number.

 

[tony597fitter]

Are you all changing the delivery valve washer and if so does anyone know the cummins part number? The truck garage I get my cummins parts from will only order for me if I have a part number.

My 97 215 pump doesnt have a washer. I have read some do and some dont.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

My 97 215 pump doesnt have a washer. I have read some do and some dont.

Older small pumps have washers! I've never seen a 180 or 215 pump with washers.



Jim

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

If you look at the timing chart, and figure the pin will flex . 3mm you could be at 13. 5* on the low side or 16. 5 on the high side.
Its easy enough to check and redo.

The pin may flex 0. 3mm, but that's 0. 3mm of timing gear rotation, not 0. 3mm of plunger lift. That may translate into 1/8 of one degree of timing gear rotation, giving 1/4th degree of crank rotation which means it affects your timing setting by up to approx. 0. 25 degrees.

 

[JJanetka]

I forgot, all pumps don't have the washers. I have a 160 so mine does. If anyone knows that part# though I'd appreciate it. My parts counter guy all but refuses to look anything up.

 

[tony597fitter]

The pin may flex 0. 3mm, but that's 0. 3mm of timing gear rotation, not 0. 3mm of plunger lift. That may translate into 1/8 of one degree of timing gear rotation, giving 1/4th degree of crank rotation which means it affects your timing setting by up to approx. 0. 25 degrees.

Not here to cause problems, But have you ever tried it? I read about it on the DTR, didnt think it was possible. Last time I timed my truck to 18*, I tried it, with my brothers help. I got 0. 3mm of lift out of the plunger.

This was with my brand new snap-on kit.



My point from the begining was that the timing pin is not an accurate way to set the timing.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I misunderstood ya Tony. . . that is a lot of movement
I use the drop valve method, and after doing that my pin drops right in. . . I use it as a means of assurance I'm where I need to be.

 

[tony597fitter]

I use the drop valve method also.



I was just saying in my original post that the timing pin isnt the best way to time the truck.

 

[MAllen]

where can you find the drop valve method?