Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Advice about towing power... or lack therof.

[GBrock]

This past weekend was my first time towing my 13,000 lb boat with my recently purchased (Feb of this year) 1999 2500 CTD LB. I must say I was quite disappointed in the performance of my truck. Despite her age, this rig has only 28,000 miles yet she seemed to perform worse than my previous towing vehicle... a 99 Ford F450 CC with the 7. 3 PS.



I need to get more torque and hp out of my truck but my two concerns are dropping a mint into mods and, more importantly, pushing the motor with mods too hard since she is an 53 block. I feel I must baby the 53, based on all the stories I have heard, so I have elected to forgo any chip type upgrades. That said, in ordedr to aintain 50-60 mph in the TX hill country, I have to floor the motor at WOT while towing.



Wouldn't it be less stress on the motor if I chipped it which should allow me to back off the throttle a bit more?



BTW: Fuel econ on the 24 Valves sucks... 14 mpg is the best average I get while empty... 8-9 towing. And I don't drive all that hard. My neighbor, who convinced me to switch from Ford to Dodge, sold his 24V for a 3rd gen '05 model. He says he gets 22 empty and 18 while towing heavy loads.



Starting I should have either bought new... or kept my Ford

 

[NIsaacs]

We need a little more info on your truck. Is it auto or standard, gear ratio and tire size, 4x4 or 4x2? Stock trucks are a little on the weak side untill you get up to at least the HO version, however with some fueling mods they come alive and will still live a long life.





"NICK"

 

[jeepit]

Definetly something wrong here but we need for you to include info on your truck in your signature. I just towed 900 miles this weekend and got 14. 5 and I always get at least 19 with no load with lots of power even in stock truck.

 

[SnoKing]

Let see, is this a bumper pull or gooseneck trailer. If it is a bumper pull it is way over the rating for that kind of towing. I hope that you have replaced the factory receiver with a class 5 unit. Like others have said, there is a lot of extra power lurking under the hood, however you have to be able to handle it. So if it is an Auto transmission unit (Trans Temp on Pillar, another clue!), then it is best to start your upgrades there, after you install gauges (see you have them). I hope it has 4:10 gears at that weight. Your profile says 33s, is that with 3. 54's, if so that is a big mistake at your weight. Just remember that you will be exceeding most if not all of the weight ratings for the truck, including GVWR if you have a gooseneck trailer. In really for a bumper pull that heavy, you should have a MDT. For a gooseneck you might get by with a 3500. Just for the record what kind of boat are you towing. I towed a 1990 Sundancer 270 (later was called a 290), it weighed 10,700 on the trailer. I towed it with a 76 Chevy 4x4 Camper Special and a 93 Dodge 4x4 Std Cab. I was pretty much beyound my limits with both trucks.



So before you start dumping money in this truck, why not send it down the road and get the right tool for the job. The right tool in my book would be at least a DRW 3500, Class 5 hitch, electric brakes on the trailer, wide load permit (most likely, what is the beam?), 6 speed manual with exhaust brake and correct gearing. SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

Just read another one of your posts, sounds like you had the right tool with the 450 Ford - 6 speed. I got to say, I think your current Dodge is the wrong tool. SNOKING

 

[McDowra]

Just read another one of your posts, sounds like you had the right tool with the 450 Ford - 6 speed. I got to say, I think your current Dodge is the wrong tool. SNOKING

2 very excellent posts, hit the nail right on the head.



Tim

 

[nps]

What are you doing with a 13,000 lb boat in the Texas hill country? At 13,000, it must be a twin engine cabin cruiser that is at least 30'. That big of a boat needs to be in the ocean

 

[fox]

Start diagnosing that motor with a fuel pressure check. 8 lbs minimum at load and some rpm.

Get that right then get a E-Z box and 275 injectors.

You will like it and the mileage should increase.

Put guages in it and watch them.

EGT, fuel pressure as a minimum.

 

[NIsaacs]

Like I said on my previous post, we don't know didley about his truck or tralier, so an informed opinion is out. However "if" the 13,000 lbs includes the trailer and "if" it is a gooseneck, how is he over weight? My "01" (very similar) to the "99" is rated for 20,000lbs GCW, 8,800 GVW, and 8,000 rear GAWR, where would he be over, assuming tare weight on the truck at 7,000 lbs. If I couldn't hook on to his boat and run off and hide with it, I might get me an F-450, NOT!!





"NICK"

 

[SnoKing]

Like I said on my previous post, we don't know didley about his truck or tralier, so an informed opinion is out. However "if" the 13,000 lbs includes the trailer and "if" it is a gooseneck, how is he over weight? My "01" (very similar) to the "99" is rated for 20,000lbs GCW, 8,800 GVW, and 8,000 rear GAWR, where would he be over, assuming tare weight on the truck at 7,000 lbs. If I couldn't hook on to his boat and run off and hide with it, I might get me an F-450, NOT!!





"NICK"

Lets see, Auto's are only rated to 18K and in that year may have been only 16K, GAWR for rear is 6084 not 8000. Truck is rated to 8800 minus at least 7K for the truck, leaving 1800 payload. A correctly loaded gooseneck would have 15 to 20 percent of its weight on the truck, that is 1950 to 2600 lbs added to the 7K truck = over GVWR. 7K truck and 13000 lb boat is 20K over again. He had a F450 and sold it, it was a better tool for the job. I spend 8K last fall on my 2001. 5 to improve towing and stopping of my 11. 25K 5er.



To top that all off he still has not said if it is a bump pull or gooseneck.



SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

Start diagnosing that motor with a fuel pressure check. 8 lbs minimum at load and some rpm.

Get that right then get a E-Z box and 275 injectors.

You will like it and the mileage should increase.

Put guages in it and watch them.

EGT, fuel pressure as a minimum.

Until he beefs up his auto transmission, your modes are not called for. SNOKING

 

[jkalchik]

Ignoring all of the trailer issues, you've got something else going on. My 99 24v (with a 5spd) gets around 18mpg unloaded. I get around 10. 5 mpg towing 10,000 lbs. of trailer & Jeep from Chicago to Utah and Arizona. I can't believe that an auto would lose more than . 5 to 1 mpg.

 

[NIsaacs]

I don't have the tow guide for "99", but in "01" 20,000 lbs GCWR is for auto or standard w/3. 55 or 4. 10 rear axle ratio. The GAWR of 6042 is for stock tires, the axle itself is rated 8000 per the sticker in the glove box. With my tires I can go to 6610. How do we know the truck is an auto? I didn't see that is his post. I don't sweat the factory ratings too much if I'm over a few pounds here or there. The factory ratings on the big rigs, fifth wheels and king pins are not rated for 9 or 11 axle lowboys either, but it's being done daily.





"NICK"

 

[rkressg]

I tow that heavy if not heavier with a tag-along trailer all the time and I get around 15-17mpg in the hills of PA.



Granted I have slightly modified my engine (injectors,box,turbo,exhaust,intake,..... ) but even stock, it ran great and would pull that heavy of a load faster than it should have gone, now it is just not right.



Of course, check the boost, EGTs, and fuel pressure. I would also look into replacing the IAT (intake air temperature) and MAP (manifold atmospheric pressure) sensors. That is probably part of the problem.



Overall, that engine should pull better than that, there is something wrong.

-Rich

 

[SnoKing]

How do we know the truck is an auto?





"NICK"

From his profile:

'99 2500 4x4 LB Laramie Sport, 33s, Autometer Pyro, Fuel Press, Trans Temp on Pillar, LUND Solar Visor, LUND color-matched step bars, Autoventshade throughout.





Trans Temp on Pillar!



33s and will still do not know his axle ratio. If it has 3. 54's and the 33 inch tires, that is not good.



Snoking

 

[NIsaacs]

Yup..... trans temp on pillar, pretty good indicator. I didn't have sense enough to go to his profile, it wasn't on his signature so I was beat!! However I have a trans temp guage also, only I gots a 6-speeder.





"NICK"

 

[McCRam]

To try to answer your question, If you "chip" it you will still be making the same amount of horsepower at a given speed. You will just have more available power. You should be getting better mileage than that. Check the basics first. Filters, fuel pressure, and such.



As far as the 33 in tires, I have 285s on mine and did not notice a big difference, although I will be getting 265s next time. I have 3. 54 gears.



I have a friend with a 01 that is a real dog. His motor seems to be in good shape, so we think his problem is with the automatic.

 

[nps]

I have a friend with a 01 that is a real dog. His motor seems to be in good shape, so we think his problem is with the automatic.

My son has an 01 auto - was a 3. 54 dog and when he put 35" tires on it he wanted to take them off. Told him to check his intercooler boots - drivers side rubs on the fender support under the batt box and pass side coming off the turbo rubs on A/C pressure swx.



His intercooler outlet boot had a gaping hole rubbed. New boot and it screams (but not as fast as dad's :-laf )

 

[GBrock]

Wow. Thanks for all the advice and comments, Gents.



OK, here is more info on my towing and rig setup. First of all, I have tried repeatedly to put my truck info in my signature... for some reason it won't work but I just added it again so perhaps the info will be displayed this time.

If not, the rig I have is a 99 2500 Sport 4x4 with Auto trans. I know I said I have 33s. Actually, they are 32. 5... they show on the tire as 305X70X16.



I also know I stated my boat was 13,000 lbs. That was a rough estimate of the total weight of boat and trailer plus windage (she sits 13. 5 feet high on the trailer). The actual weight calculation, it's more like 11,200 and thats IF I put full fuel on the boat. She holds 800 lbs of fuel if topped off. The only time I top her off while towing is when I am a few miles from the launch ramp. Sometimes we do tow with half full tanks though ( if we end a trip early and have to head home with remaining fuel on board).



Without full fuel we're probably towing at 10,800 for the boat and trailer. And it is a bumper pull, not a gooseneck.



Regarding the braking and weight, the truck stops just fine because the trailer has 4 disc brakes. As long as the surge brakes are working, there is no issue with stoppage, the trailer is doing most of it's own braking work.



As far as the gearing I have... I can't seem to determine that info. I have looked everywhere for the gearing sticker. It is not listed on the door sticker, there is no glove box sticker, and it is not mentioned on the hood sticker. I suppose I would have to ask the dealer to check it using my VIN.



I realize I have the wrong tool for the job... then again, these trucks can tow a lot more than 11,000 lbs so it shouldn't be such a struggle for my rig. While I miss my F450 CC, I wouldn't buy another one after all the stories I have read about from 6. 0 PS owners. Mine was a 7. 3, very reliable. The new 6. 0 setup isn't.



I know I should be suing a manual setup but I just don't tow enough to justify the annoyance of churning butter (driving stick). I know there are a lot of readers who love stick, more power to them, me, I drive equipment for a living. When I am on the road, I want to do as little work as possible. If I towed all the time then I'd definitely get a manual.



I have read comments from 2nd gen owners who are driving the 01 or 02 model. It seems to me that those engines are tweaked to perform better in terms of fuel econ. The 99 is a different story.



Pretty much the only way I can tow and maintain a consistent speed is with O/D off... . but with O/D off she runs hotter on all gauges: engine temp, trans temp, pyro, and requires more fuel pr.



Chris at Relentless Diesel tells me 14-15 mpg empty is all I can expect to get out of my truck so I just accepted my fuel stats based on his diagnosis. Now other 2nd gen owners are stating 25% better fuel econ? I am confused here.



Regarding needing a Dually/ 3500 setup, I agree. However, considering I just tow two or three times a month in the summer months, I wanted to try the 2500 setup instead. I come from a family of mechanics who all advised that the 2500 setup would be plenty for my boat. In fact, my uncle has been towing his boat (same weight) with a F250 setup for years and has had no problems. Having a dually is great. They tow better, can carry more, and of course look way cool. But, unless you tow heavy everyday, there are drawbacks (more tires to replace, worse fuel mileage, parking, carwashes, drive throughs, etc). When DC builds the new MegaCab in a 8ft bed dually setup, I will make the switch. For now, I bought a 99 2nd gen to hold me over until that point. I almost went with the 3rd gen quad dually but then saw the news about the mega and decided to wait on going new for a while.

80% of what I use my truck for is non-towing related.



Again, thanks for all the advice.

 

[McCRam]

Did you have a headwind while you were pulling the boat?



The dealer could look up your gearing for you. Another way you can tell is to jack up the rear end, and put the tcase in neutral. spin the tires and count the number of times the driveshaft turns. If it turns 3 1/2 times you have the 3. 54, 4 times you would have the 4. 10.



Your truck will be just fine towing that weight. I have proven it many times. We have a 98. 5 which I believe has the 235 horse motor like yours, it is a 5 speed though. I wouldn't hesitate to pull your boat with it.



I do think you should be getting better milage. We get 18 mpg pretty regular with our 98. 5. You would lose a couple of mpgs if you have 4. 10s though. Check for boost leaks like nps said, you could be losing boost, and if everything checks out in the motor, have the transmission checked out.