Advice Requested for Truck Purchase

[mmatteson]

I am new to this forum so if my questions have already been covered in a previous thread, please just point me in that direction.



I have started to look for a new (used) truck to pull my 5th wheel, which weighs 7-8000 lb loaded. At this point I've decided on the Dodge 2500 (because of the Cummins), long bed, extended cab for convenience, and 4x4 as I occaisonally get in low traction situations.



Advice would be very much appreciated regarding automatic vs manual transmission. I am a capable manual transmission user but would prefer automatic for convenience. However, I have heard the automatic is prone to problems when subjected to towing.



I would also appreciate advice regarding the 12 valve vs 24 valve motor for towing use. My budget will allow for up to a 1999 model, or perhaps a 2000 if I found a deal, so either motor is a possibility.



In addition to installing electric trailer brakes, does anyone have suggestions for other improvements which would be useful for towing a trailer of this type.



Thanks very much for any advice.

 

[SS]

Welcome!

Mmatteson - Welcome to the TDR. I think you've done what a lot of guys wish they did - join BEFORE they bought the truck. You can spend hours reading about searches on the subjects you want. If you can't find info don't be afraid to ask.



Everybody has their own likes/dislikes, but for me the Quad Cab was a must have. Not great for long trips with adults, but perfect for kids and for loading gear. I wouldn't trade my QC to get a 12V, but there are some 98's with both if that's what you need. Either engine can be upgraded fairly reasonably. Some say the 12V's get better mileage, but... The auto trans is what I consider the weak link in the truck, but I am torn like you for the convenience factor. The trans can be fixed with help from some of the advertisers here - just takes $. I prefer the 6-speed to the 5-speed - same 1st and top gear ratio, but tighter spacing so you always have the right gear for towing. 3. 55 axles are probably best for your trailer and everyday driving. One add-on to consider for towing with the truck is an exhaust brake.



One guy's opinions

 

[Texas Diesel]

Welcome!



I prefer the manual for towing but the automatic is easy to beef up. Any factory auto could let you down unless it is upgraded.



I lived near a vehicle proving ground once and I asked one of the engineers how much of the test time for a truck is actually done loaded and he said 10-15% because that is what their market research shows to be typical use. This would explain OEM transmission failures for the big three if used regularly for towing.



Look around for a HD transfer case, it will have PTO cover it's passenger side. It is a $95 option and holds twice the fluid and has a bigger drive chain.



The 12V would be my first chioce. :-{}



The 3. 55 IMO will be ok for you. One thing to remember, 2500's with manual transmissions get Dana 80 center sections instead of Dana 70 center sections.



Get the trailer tow package because it has the relays to run your trailer lights so you dont burn out the normal switches.



Watch the bed height on a 4wd, it may get into your 5th wheel, there is a lowering kit from DC to drop the bed but it is $900 or so installed.



If at all possible get a 2001. 5 model with 4 wheel disk brakes, they are awesome. I once had 12,000# trailer with it's brake line go out and I was able to stop it comfortably with the truck's service brakes.



Plan to add gauges and a 2 wheel drive low range kit, you'll be glad you did.



Be sure to check drag link, trac bar and tie rod ends for play, they are sealed units and wear rapidly. I added zerks to mine so I could add grease.



I'm sure to think of more as soon as I hit "submit reply" Good luck

 

[mmatteson]

Thanks Steve and Texas Diesel for the information you have provided. It's very helpful. Texas D. could you please give your reasons for preferring the 12 V motor? I've been leaning toward the 24 valve because the torque curves seem to be somewhat broader and flatter than the 12 valve (graphs taken from dodgeram.org), and the horsepower for the California model is only 180 hp for both the manual and automatic transmission, whereas it's 215 hp for the manual 49 state model, and I do live in California so will quite possibly be buying that model. Torque for the California manual transmission model is listed as 420, 440 for the 49 state model. But, I don't know if any of these differences are really significant for what I will be using the truck for. Thus, I am quite confused. Once again, thanks for the help, and thanks in advance for any further advice.



Mike

 

[cwsoules]

I love my 2000 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad Cab. With the riders side seat moved forward slightly my 5'6" wife has ridden up to 200 miles in the back seat in comfort. I'm 6' and I could not do it. (But I drive).



We got the automatic so my wife could drive the truck occasionally. It certainly makes driving easier rather than having to row thru the gears with a manual. I got the 4:10 rear end because my 5er weighs 10K.



I wanted an exhaust brake so I could stay off the brakes in the mountains. To feel comfortable with the exhaust brake I had the transmission up graded with the DTT valve body, torque converter, and smart box. Today I towed my 5er on I-80 from Lyman, WY and Salt Lake City, UT thru the mountains and seldom had to touch the brakes.



At the very least you must have an exhaust gas temperature gage, boost pressure gage and a transmission temperature gage no matter what transmission you have. I now know that before I had the gages installed I on occasion pushed my truck harder than I should have.



Good luck on your decision.



Chuck

 

[rrausch]

Welcome to the TDR Mike! I think many people prefer the 2nd. Gen. 12 Valve engines because the Injection Pump is so much stronger than in the 24 Valve. The 2nd Gen. 12V uses a gear-driven, oil lubed, mechanical pump while the 24V uses an electronic, diesel-lubed pump. The electronic pumps seem a little more prone to failure I believe.



And if you really want to make insane amounts of power, I think it is easier to upgrade the 12V than the 24V. Although a lot of guys are making their 24V's go pretty good.



Since you are looking for a used truck, my advice is to keep your eyes open for one which already has a weak automatic trans. Use the weak automatic to bargain the guy down. Then take the truck to any good trans shop and order a Torque Converter and Valve Body from any of the 4 good vendors here. (My choice was ATS in Denver) They are ATS, DTT, GOEREND, and BD.

Check any of the "Torque Converter" threads for more Automatic trans information. Properly upgraded, the automatic will be great for towing.

Mine towed a 32' Alpenite for many thousands of miles stock. And now that I upgraded to an ATS TripleLok, it REALLY GOES and WILL NOT slip.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Quote: "Texas D. could you please give your reasons for preferring the 12 V motor?"





rrausch summed it up perfectly. Both have advantages but reliability is higher on the P7100 (?) pump, but I love the performance of the VP-44. It really comes down to personal choice, both are excellent designs, I lean towards reliability and long life over raw horsepower.

 

[LSMITH]

Stock to stock the 24V is going to pull better than the 12V. When you start upping the power it is a horse apeice really these days, you just plug the HP in on 24V and bolt it on a 12V. Towing economy is very close, but the 12V economy overall is going to be a bit better. If I did not need the quad doors I would look for a 96-98 12V personally, the engine is nearly all mechanical in it's control system where the 24V has 2 computers on the engine alone to manage it. Simplicity goes a long way when you need to work on it. The 12V feels snappier to me too at the same HP level as a 24V, it gives you what you want where the 24V computer decides what you get. For transmissions the only choice for me would be a manual. I have an auto on this truck and it sucks. The idea of spending $3000 or so to make it solid irritates me pretty badly. I won't buy another auto transmission behind a diesel period. With a 5 speed the 5th gear is a problem, but only about $500 or so for parts to fix it, and a clutch is TONS cheaper than an auto transmission to replace. There are some 99 and '00 models with the 6 speed transmission out there too, that helps you pull much better as the gear splits are perfectly matched to the engine powerband. I prefer the 6 speed over the 5, but lots of guys like the 5 better. If you can live with a manual transmission I would strongly suggest you get one. The towing package and the HD transfer case are not a big deal IMO, you are going to have to rewire the connection on the truck for your fiver anyway if you want the plug in the bed. Relays are cheap too. The HD transfer case may be stronger but the standard is a really tough unit.



Buying used you are kinda stuck with what you find, if it will meet your needs and you like it buy it. Don't be surprised if it takes a while to find the one you want, and don't get in a rush. Wait for what you want, and buy right the first time. These are my honest opinions, I hope it helps.

 

[Charley]

mmatteson



Also consider that you can buy a new truck at invoice from many dealers plus any discounts that Dodge is offering at the time. There is a current thread now that names several dealers in Oklahoma that will sell at invoice with no haggling. Chapprell Dodge in Ada, Oklahoma is one. They will pick you up at the airport in Oklahoma City or Tulsa and take you to Ada.



I only tow maybe 5% or less of the time so I opted for the auto. I tow a 15,000# fifth wheel and it handles it OK, 8% grades and all. I commute in Houston traffic and don't want to have to row in heavy traffic.



Charley

 

[Double 6]

Since everybody up above posted good advice about the mechanical end of things. After you get your truck, I will suggest that you look at the Tekonsha Prodigy brake controller for the electrical end of trailer towing, it is one of, if not the best brake controller made, is easy to install, plus has a lifetime warranty.

The best prices are at Camping World.