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afe PRO GUARD 7 question
- Thread starter nwcatman
- Start Date
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AFE 4 ply or Proguard
Your decision should be easy. Protecting your engine with the pro-guard 7 is a similar filtration standard required by OEM. I talked with AFE and there is only a 10% flow reduction. If you upgrade to this system from your stock system your getting a big cfm increase(don't know how much though. For my own piece of mind when on a dusty road or a sand storm- pro-guard seven is the only option for me. For the record I just heard they stopped production of the stage two system. Heard this from a supplier I ordered my stage one from.
Your decision should be easy. Protecting your engine with the pro-guard 7 is a similar filtration standard required by OEM. I talked with AFE and there is only a 10% flow reduction. If you upgrade to this system from your stock system your getting a big cfm increase(don't know how much though. For my own piece of mind when on a dusty road or a sand storm- pro-guard seven is the only option for me. For the record I just heard they stopped production of the stage two system. Heard this from a supplier I ordered my stage one from.
Thats the original AFE filter.
I stand corrected the new stage two filter is just being released and its in full production. the original AFE filter is still being built and sold. I decided that the extra 200. 00 to 250 wasnt worth the cost. There is only so much air your CTD will effectively use. Another part of the decision came dow to if the TAG I have now would fit with the stage two and I checked with the Mfr and he said know it wouldnt. So I opted to save the $220 + and continue to use my TAG.
Re: AFE 4 ply or Proguard
I have switched, more out of peer pressure than anything else. However, the question should be asked, what is the Pro-Guard 7 filtration when compared to OEM and other filters? Let's compare particulate filtration as well as air flow. aFe, step up to the table!
I have switched, more out of peer pressure than anything else. However, the question should be asked, what is the Pro-Guard 7 filtration when compared to OEM and other filters? Let's compare particulate filtration as well as air flow. aFe, step up to the table!
More air in!
Take the air filter off and watch performance go up! However, the engine won't like you for it. aFe and other filter manufacturers should take a tip from Amsoil and say precisely what kind of filtration (particulate microns, etc. ) their media provides.
I know a fellow who has been trying to get this information out of K & N for years and they won't provide it. Maybe they've got something to hide. Maybe that's why Cummins says don't use K & N air filters on Cummins engines.
Take the air filter off and watch performance go up! However, the engine won't like you for it. aFe and other filter manufacturers should take a tip from Amsoil and say precisely what kind of filtration (particulate microns, etc. ) their media provides.
I know a fellow who has been trying to get this information out of K & N for years and they won't provide it. Maybe they've got something to hide. Maybe that's why Cummins says don't use K & N air filters on Cummins engines.
Well heck here is the rest of the story. I must confess. I have the K&N on my rig now. I cleaned the filter and cut out the side of the stock box. It made a big diff. I ordered the stage one with the pro guard . Will install end of next week. I did alot of research and asking questions like you. I did read about the K&N and how it doesnt filter that well. So off it goes and on with the AFE. I will post my results.
Mark Craig
TDR Advertiser
PG7 Info vs 4 layer Filters!!!
nwcatman,
Here's some info I got from one of our customers that does a lot of aftermarket product testing etc. This is also the reason we ONLY sell PG7's!!!!
Here's what Dan Montegari of Precision Diesel Services says about advanced FLOW engineering's Pro-GUARD 7 filter media:
HIGH FLOW AIR INTAKE SYSTEMS
WHO IS THE BEST & WHY!
We received many letters asking which high flow air intake system to use. We decided to test a number of manufacturers’ systems to determine which system was superior. We tested each system and found systems manufactured by AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering) were the best by far.
Diesel engines use seven times more air than gasoline engines of equivalent size so clean cool air is a must for extended engine life, better fuel economy and additional power. A higher flow of intake air coupled with a high flow exhaust system allows for more power, a better fuel economy, extended engine life and reduced exhaust temperatures. On the other hand ingested dirt through the air intake system becomes Silicon in the engine oil, which is a harsh cutting agent and can damage your engine quickly.
We tested three very popular systems. I will not mention the names of the other systems as a courtesy but I will explain what problems we found with them. We evaluated the systems by a number of criteria, filtration protection, flow, and design, easy of installation and cost. Almost in the beginning of the tests we realized in most instances a new intake system was necessary to achieve our goals. We needed a kit that used mostly outside air and not hot engine compartment air. We decided to use systems designed to use mostly outside air.
Two manufacturers claimed their systems delivered cleaner air at a higher flow but this was far from the truth. We did not believe any of the manufacturers’ claims and tested each system by operating the vehicle 3,000 miles and performing an engine oil analysis to determine Silicon levels in the engine oil. The vehicle we used has an engine oil analysis performed at every oil change so we had a Silicon number of three (3) to base our tests on.
The first manufacturer’s system was fairly easy to install but we had problems with the oil used to coat the filter also coated the Mass Air Flow Sensor causing a service engine lamp to come on. I called the manufacturer but they had no explanation as to why this should happen but they had this complaint before. Through the three thousand mile test I had to clean the sensor three times to stop the service engine lamp from coming on. When the oil analysis results came back, it was discouraging with Silicon levels at eleven (11). I almost could not believe the result so we changed the oil and filter and repeated the test. The results were almost the same eliminating this manufacturer quickly. I contacted the manufacturer to discuss the results and they were not helpful and basically said, “what you see is what you get”!
We installed the second manufacturer’s system again changing the engine oil and operating the vehicle for three thousand miles. The first problem we encountered was the service engine lamp coming on and I thought the oil they used was coating the sensor again. I removed the sensor and found some oil on it which I cleaned off and reinstalled the sensor. Within ten miles the lamp was on again. I removed the sensor but there was no coating of oil on it. I then placed our scan tool on the engine and quickly discovered the airflow rate was too high for the sensor. I then realized the manufacturer had moved the position of the sensor into a higher airflow and velocity position trying to squeak a little more power from their system. I continued the test having to deal with the service engine lamp throughout the test period. The engine oil analysis gave a Silicon reading of eight (8 and along with the engine lamp problem did not give the manufacturer high mark but I felt if I discussed the problems with them maybe we could overcome them. I placed four calls to the manufacturer and I am still waiting for a call back! This surely eliminated this manufacturer.
The third manufacturer we tested was AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering). We used their Magnum Force air intake system. We operated the vehicle for 3000 miles and when the oil analysis came back it was promising with a Silicon reading of five (5). While five was the best Silicon result we had, it was not good enough. I called AFE and was pleasantly surprised when I discovered they were truly concerned. I spoke with a Mr. Paul Hardley who suggested I try their Pro-Guard 7 media they were about to release. He explained the new Pro-Guard 7 media was five layers of progressively finer mesh medical grade cotton gauze with micro fibers that attract smaller and smaller particles as air passes through. Combined with the five layers of medical [gauze] media, there are two layers of non-woven synthetic polyester fabric with random porosity. The filter media is sandwiched between two layers of aluminum wire mesh. He agreed to send two Pro-Guard 7 filters for a new test. I installed the Pro-Guard 7 filter, changed the engine oil and operated the vehicle for three thousand miles. The engine oil analysis was excellent with a Silicon reading of below three (3). Finally we found an air intake system that gave us a higher flow rate and better filtration. The AFE Magnum Force air intake system is a well designed system, easily installed and uses about 90% outside air. The filter is cleanable and the oil used to coat the filter is patented because it is formulated not to affect the airflow sensor.
Another positive factor of the high flow system was the fuel economy increased about ½ MPG in mixed driving and 1 MPG during highway tests. The filter media used by AFE will not collapse if it gets wet or subject to high boost pressures. They also offer pre-filters for most of their applications for very dusty or dirty operating conditions. We carry a full line of AFE products with Pro-GUARD 7 media. If you order an AFE system from another source, make sure it has a Pro-GUARD 7 media.
A very important factor in this test was the manufacturer was willing to discuss problems with their products and help to overcome them. My hat is off to Paul Hardley and all the people at AFE!
Dan Montegari
President
Precision Diesel Services
If you have any questions just call us.
Mark @ DPPI
nwcatman,
Here's some info I got from one of our customers that does a lot of aftermarket product testing etc. This is also the reason we ONLY sell PG7's!!!!
Here's what Dan Montegari of Precision Diesel Services says about advanced FLOW engineering's Pro-GUARD 7 filter media:
HIGH FLOW AIR INTAKE SYSTEMS
WHO IS THE BEST & WHY!
We received many letters asking which high flow air intake system to use. We decided to test a number of manufacturers’ systems to determine which system was superior. We tested each system and found systems manufactured by AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering) were the best by far.
Diesel engines use seven times more air than gasoline engines of equivalent size so clean cool air is a must for extended engine life, better fuel economy and additional power. A higher flow of intake air coupled with a high flow exhaust system allows for more power, a better fuel economy, extended engine life and reduced exhaust temperatures. On the other hand ingested dirt through the air intake system becomes Silicon in the engine oil, which is a harsh cutting agent and can damage your engine quickly.
We tested three very popular systems. I will not mention the names of the other systems as a courtesy but I will explain what problems we found with them. We evaluated the systems by a number of criteria, filtration protection, flow, and design, easy of installation and cost. Almost in the beginning of the tests we realized in most instances a new intake system was necessary to achieve our goals. We needed a kit that used mostly outside air and not hot engine compartment air. We decided to use systems designed to use mostly outside air.
Two manufacturers claimed their systems delivered cleaner air at a higher flow but this was far from the truth. We did not believe any of the manufacturers’ claims and tested each system by operating the vehicle 3,000 miles and performing an engine oil analysis to determine Silicon levels in the engine oil. The vehicle we used has an engine oil analysis performed at every oil change so we had a Silicon number of three (3) to base our tests on.
The first manufacturer’s system was fairly easy to install but we had problems with the oil used to coat the filter also coated the Mass Air Flow Sensor causing a service engine lamp to come on. I called the manufacturer but they had no explanation as to why this should happen but they had this complaint before. Through the three thousand mile test I had to clean the sensor three times to stop the service engine lamp from coming on. When the oil analysis results came back, it was discouraging with Silicon levels at eleven (11). I almost could not believe the result so we changed the oil and filter and repeated the test. The results were almost the same eliminating this manufacturer quickly. I contacted the manufacturer to discuss the results and they were not helpful and basically said, “what you see is what you get”!
We installed the second manufacturer’s system again changing the engine oil and operating the vehicle for three thousand miles. The first problem we encountered was the service engine lamp coming on and I thought the oil they used was coating the sensor again. I removed the sensor and found some oil on it which I cleaned off and reinstalled the sensor. Within ten miles the lamp was on again. I removed the sensor but there was no coating of oil on it. I then placed our scan tool on the engine and quickly discovered the airflow rate was too high for the sensor. I then realized the manufacturer had moved the position of the sensor into a higher airflow and velocity position trying to squeak a little more power from their system. I continued the test having to deal with the service engine lamp throughout the test period. The engine oil analysis gave a Silicon reading of eight (8 and along with the engine lamp problem did not give the manufacturer high mark but I felt if I discussed the problems with them maybe we could overcome them. I placed four calls to the manufacturer and I am still waiting for a call back! This surely eliminated this manufacturer.
The third manufacturer we tested was AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering). We used their Magnum Force air intake system. We operated the vehicle for 3000 miles and when the oil analysis came back it was promising with a Silicon reading of five (5). While five was the best Silicon result we had, it was not good enough. I called AFE and was pleasantly surprised when I discovered they were truly concerned. I spoke with a Mr. Paul Hardley who suggested I try their Pro-Guard 7 media they were about to release. He explained the new Pro-Guard 7 media was five layers of progressively finer mesh medical grade cotton gauze with micro fibers that attract smaller and smaller particles as air passes through. Combined with the five layers of medical [gauze] media, there are two layers of non-woven synthetic polyester fabric with random porosity. The filter media is sandwiched between two layers of aluminum wire mesh. He agreed to send two Pro-Guard 7 filters for a new test. I installed the Pro-Guard 7 filter, changed the engine oil and operated the vehicle for three thousand miles. The engine oil analysis was excellent with a Silicon reading of below three (3). Finally we found an air intake system that gave us a higher flow rate and better filtration. The AFE Magnum Force air intake system is a well designed system, easily installed and uses about 90% outside air. The filter is cleanable and the oil used to coat the filter is patented because it is formulated not to affect the airflow sensor.
Another positive factor of the high flow system was the fuel economy increased about ½ MPG in mixed driving and 1 MPG during highway tests. The filter media used by AFE will not collapse if it gets wet or subject to high boost pressures. They also offer pre-filters for most of their applications for very dusty or dirty operating conditions. We carry a full line of AFE products with Pro-GUARD 7 media. If you order an AFE system from another source, make sure it has a Pro-GUARD 7 media.
A very important factor in this test was the manufacturer was willing to discuss problems with their products and help to overcome them. My hat is off to Paul Hardley and all the people at AFE!
Dan Montegari
President
Precision Diesel Services
If you have any questions just call us.
Mark @ DPPI
Thanks Mark for passing along this valuable information. We all invest considerable dollras into our rigs and we need accurated information. This report and test really does tell the story. I will be installing my magnum force with the proguard 7. Cant wait to see the performace difference. I have a 4 in turbo back and a TAG on mine. This should put me over the top with confidence in a quality product that will protect my CTC.
David
David
Don't let your expectations get too high, David. The difference can be heard rather than felt. The engine SOUNDS as though it's breathing better, so hopefully it is. But don't expect the change to lay you back in the seat because it won't.
I just installed the ProGuard 7 and TAG at the same time and had to drive the truck a couple of times before deciding, yeah, it sounds different. I'm waiting to see if there's a change in mpg.
Unlike a power module (EZ, TST, etc. ), I think the aFe and TAG addition might register on gauges or a dyno and not the seat of our pants. I'm glad I switched and plan to add a Banks Muff one of these days. But gauges are next and then we'll go from there.
Turbo Air Guide. It's new on the market, fits in the pre-turbo plumbing and supposedly channels "swirled" air straight into the turbo, which enhances spool-up. Some say it works well, others aren't so sure. I fall somewhere in the middle.
It would help if I had gauges or dyno results to compare pre- and post-tests to, but I don't and therefore will have to rely on the reports from other users.
My engine seems to breathe better; however,, I installed an aFe ProGuard 7 filter at the same time I stuck the TAG in, so that biases any results I might claim.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
