AFE Torque Tubes ?

[XcumminsX]

I was told that by a vendor. You lose some low end torque.

 

[HoofinSoot]

I was told that by a vendor. You lose some low end torque.

Hmmm ..... I wonder why and how much ???

 

[CBradford]

Here's your sign

I was told that by a vendor. You lose some low end torque.

 

[turbinesurgun]

Tag

what about that tag thing have any of you guys ever used that i bought one and seems like it gets more miles to tank have not had a chance to run a full tank without pulling yet but seems like better mileage

 

[hasselbach]

I was told that by a vendor. You lose some low end torque.

A vendor that sold Pepsi or Tennis Shoes?



I can't see any way that goofy tube creates torque. The only thing it might do is lower the torque curve because of the restriction it causes, but that's about it... Otherwise, wouldn't you see just about every car and truck on the road with them installed?

 

[XcumminsX]

You want to know what vendor told me this... PM me. If if your a newbie who rolled eyes at me you really shouldnt talk if you dont know what your doing. . Tests were done i am just saying what i was told, the conclusion of the test were you lose bottom end torque. .



Thank you...

 

[hasselbach]

You want to know what vendor told me this... PM me. If if your a newbie who rolled eyes at me you really shouldnt talk if you don't know what your doing. . Tests were done i am just saying what i was told, the conclusion of the test were you lose bottom end torque. .



Thank you...

Ouch,



I know what I'm doing, I've been building race motors for the past 20 years (NHRA, JBA, NHBA, circle track, etc) I've spent more hours on flow benches doing head work than you have spent watching TV. Heck, my last twin turbo motor cost more than your house I bet, and its in the top 3 in ET and MPH in PSCA.



It kills me when some 'unknown' source, i. e. a vendor of unknown background makes a stupid statement like 'you'll lose low end' blah blah blah. . I wasn't flaming anyone, and I'm not a newbie by any means.



And why PM you? If you make a statement like you did, show the source that made it.



The design of the 'torque tube' is strictly as a noise suppression device to help DC meet the federal noise standards (reduce the whistle from the vortexing air caused by the turbo). Same goes for the under the hood insulation that we have, period.



Last point, at the same pressure drop on a flow bench, just by removing the innards of the torque tube, and inserting a 4 inch pipe, flow was increased dramatically (25%). If you gut the torque tube, flow increased marginally, but this was due to turbulence from air flow going from 4 inch, to 5 inch and then back to 4 inch, you must keep the cross section of the pipe equal.



Heck, if the torque tube did actually something, it would be on every TV channel on some stupid infomercial as a miracle add on. But then again, it just might be, but I don't watch TV since I'm usually trying to figure out how to fool air in making turns without pressure drops and turbulence on the flow bench. .



So, tell me how is increasing flow without a loss of velocity would result in a LOSS torque? (which is a moot point on turbo'd engines anyway)



:-laf Elvis Has Left the Building

 

[HoofinSoot]

So ... ... . just to re-cap ... ... .



* The factory torque tube is designed to muffle the whistle of the turbo. (I buy that)



* The mandrel-bent 4" AFE Torque Tube shows an increase in flow (25%-ish) because of the lack of turbulence created with the factory unit. (I buy this too..... )



* A *source* says that there is a loss of bottom end torque. But we've yet to figure out "why" an increase in flow, with significantly less turbulence, would cause a loss of torque ?? (I'm not convinced there's a loss. )



Am I close to where we are at ???

 

[XcumminsX]

hasselbeck i wasnt talking about you... i was talking about Cbradford...



like i said PM me if you want to know who the vendor is im not gonna post it public

 

[hasselbach]

CBradford! See what you have done now with your eyes rolling! And I got all snooty with xcumminsx because of your loose eyeballs. .



In any event, I'd love to know what type of tests showed a loss of torque and how they discovered this. Again, they might have noticed a movement of the torque curve to a lower RPM due to lack of volumetric efficiency caused by the restriction of the torque tube, similar to a smaller carb on a gas motor.

 

[GWoody]

:-{} :{ Oo. :--) :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf

















There Y'all take that, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I still say I couldn't tell that I lost any low end torque when I put this tube on.

 

[DLeno]

I'm aware of exhaust upgrades causing lower torque output when no boost fooling is involved. whether that applies to intake systems I don't know. Ted Jannety reported on that some time ago. I might have the details fuzzed up, but I think it had to do with the fact that the ECM fuels according to boost, and if boost rises faster than normal, the ECM will de-fuel according to its emissions related design goals. So when air upgrades are not accompanied by a boost fooler, you get slightly less low-end torque. With electronic boost fooling from a box, it is not an issue.

 

[CBradford]

hahaha... ... well i guess high post count is the only thing that makes one a non-newbie... ... i've got the part in question on my truck currently but can't really answer the loss of torque question b/c i put it on at the same time as an edge ez... ... so obviously when mods were done i gained power... ... the recirculation of "facts" on the internet kills me

CBradford! See what you have done now with your eyes rolling! And I got all snooty with xcumminsx because of your loose eyeballs. .



In any event, I'd love to know what type of tests showed a loss of torque and how they discovered this. Again, they might have noticed a movement of the torque curve to a lower RPM due to lack of volumetric efficiency caused by the restriction of the torque tube, similar to a smaller carb on a gas motor.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

For those people who want to make their own torque tubes and save some money:

From airflowonline.com:



AL4 Aluminum Intake Tubing 4" OD $7. 19 12" (7" required)



90HL4SL Rubber Intake Elbow 90 Degree 4" $12. 27 * 2 =$24. 54



You can use crappy 99 cent clamps but I would put at LEAST 1 nice clamp on the turbo end... ideally you should get 4 of these (turbo to elbow, elbow to pipe, elbow to intake box)



AF-400 T-Bolt Clamp for 4" ID Intake Hoses $4. 21



I painted the 7" pipe Chrysler red and it matches the "DODGE" written on the valve cover.



Total cost = ~$40



I haven't got to drive it yet but even at idle you can hear it whistle a lot louder. Also, that big fat center section of the stock intake is basically 1 huge noise baffle, probably required for federal noise standards or something. If you don't like LOUD, don't do this.



Overall, I'd be surprised if this doesn't help a TINY bit. . I wouldn't expect much out of it, but at the same time... I'd love to hear how someone says this hurts... .

 

[HoofinSoot]

GREAT INFO Patrick !!



Thanks !



For the $50-odd bucks that it costs to make that (assuming all new T-clamps), I might just make one and see how me and my truck like it. If *we* don't like it, I can pull it back off. No harm - no foul.

 

[XcumminsX]

Thanks Pat i just bought all that stuff

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Here is what mine looked like. I was too lazy to un-clamp it to take a picture...



#ad

 

[HoofinSoot]

Patrick,



You say that you can definitely hear the turbo whine now, and I see you are using the factory air box. I wonder what it would sound like with the AFE 7 cone-filter and airbox setup ????



Yours looks good though ! #ad

 

[JThiessen]

So does the AFE TT replace all of the rubber tubing? I'm thinking that another 30 bucks (over the $40-50 to make one) for the nice finish might be worth it.



So theres been quite a bit of discussion on the T. T. considering no mods (ie. , without boost fooling), but what if we have boost fooling? I'm under the impression that in this scenario it wont cause any degredation in lower end torque, but is there any improvment? Maybe its one of those "placebo" items for those of us who are only in the low 300 HP range... ... .

 

[Buffalo]

I have the Pro-Guard 7 System with a pre-filter on my '03. I, also, removed the silencer ring. It was fairly loud in so far as the the turbo whistle goes. While at Thunder in Muncie, I bought the Torque Tube and installed it. I didn't really notice any appreciable performance increases other than the turbo is much louder, now. If You like a quiet truck, I would stay away from the T. T. If, on the other hand, Your'e like me (a little brain damaged), and like to drive around with the radio off and the windows down so that you can hear the exhaust and turbo, You will love this thing! Just remember, it makes the turbo whistle MUCH louder. Hope this helps. Joe F.