Ain't that a shame...

[Gary - K7GLD]

... That the anger, irritation and frustration concerning fuel prices from a scant WEEK ago, have already melted away as prices have in many areas dropped back to a level that HAD many up in arms a month or so back.



Nice game our government and corporate leaders play - jack US around, and the prices UP - and then when they cunningly drop the prices a bit, we grab the bone, and scurry away happy at our "good fortune" in ignorance that we have just been played for suckers, and have only to wait a bit until the game starts all over again, as energy costs creep up to a new benchmark high...

 

[JMetzger]

I agree with you Gary. I have written to both of our legislators (State of NV) about two months ago about the price of fuel & neither one had the decency or courtesy to respond to my letter. Yes Gary you are right, it is a shame.

 

[Regcabguy]

Ditto! The Mexican government in an article in our local newspaper here has announced an agreement to import clean diesel from the U. S. to help decrease the extreme pollution spewing from Mexican trucks. Just when diesel's averaging $3. 00 here in San Diego comes this announcement. It'll only be in the border cities and only until they reformulate their Pemex. What are we looking at 2-3 years? Uncontrolled immigration and now we're sending diesel south? Yikes!

 

[Alan Reagan]

We are still over $3. 00 a gallon here and gasoline prices vary between $2. 10 and $2. 50.

 

[SSabick]

I have been having these same conversations this past weekend. I had noticed the price of fuel in just a 2 hour drive fluxuated from $2. 56-3. 54/gal. I couldn't help thinking i needed to remember to fill up on the way back home, because fuel is at $3. 23/gal. there. Then I noticed the $2. 11/gal. for regular gas... I still think that is an outrage. However, I would gladly pay that over the $3. 23/gal I am paying right now. I remember thinking I was going to have to get the bicycle out when I first saw $1. 50/gal. I still swear that one of these days the USA will look just like China or Japan with more bicycles, and pedestrian on the street, than any other form of transportation. There will be a slight hint of Mexico here as well with 3+ families living in the same house. That is another story though.

 

[RustyJC]

Ummmm..... does anyone think that the price drop could have anything to do with (1. ) Gulf of Mexico crude oil production increasing as post-hurricane repairs are made and (2. ) ExxonMobil's Chalmette, LA refinery coming back on line this week? Naaa, of course not. It's much more fun to wear tinfoil hats and look for the black helicopters.



Rusty

 

[Coolslice]

Ummmm..... does anyone think that the price drop could have anything to do with (1. ) Gulf of Mexico crude oil production increasing as post-hurricane repairs are made and (2. ) ExxonMobil's Chalmette, LA refinery coming back on line this week? Naaa, of course not. It's much more fun to wear tinfoil hats and look for the black helicopters.



Rusty

Think what you want, but the proof is in the pudding. If the oil companies are having so much trouble with supply and rising production costs, why are they posting record profits every quarter? If they are just passing the cost on to us, seems like it should all balance out- but it doesn't... Buy into the excuses if you want to, but I refuse to believe that a company that PROFITS $75,000 every minute is giving us a bargin. . I think they have some explaining to do beyond a fire or storm.

 

[RustyJC]

If the oil companies are having so much trouble with supply and rising production costs, why are they posting record profits every quarter?

Because restricted supply, in and of itself, has nothing to do with lifting costs but has everything to do with price. Supply drops. Demand stays constant. Prices rise. Since cost hasn't changed, profits rise.



Oil company profits (as published in the Houston Chronicle this morning) ranged from 7% to 10% of this quarter's reported revenues. If you ran your own business, would you think it unreasonable to make 7 to 10 cents on every dollar of sales? If so, what do you think is a reasonable profit percentage?



Rusty

 

[Jaysyl]

Ummmm..... does anyone think that the price drop could have anything to do with (1. ) Gulf of Mexico crude oil production increasing as post-hurricane repairs are made and (2. ) ExxonMobil's Chalmette, LA refinery coming back on line this week? Naaa, of course not. It's much more fun to wear tinfoil hats and look for the black helicopters.



Rusty

Good post, Thank you

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Oil company profits (as published in the Houston Chronicle this morning) ranged from 7% to 10% of this quarter's reported revenues. If you ran your own business, would you think it unreasonable to make 7 to 10 cents on every dollar of sales? If so, what do you think is a reasonable profit percentage?"



I just love it when the gullible so eagerly swallow the profit reports supplied by the oil companies and their paid mouthpieces - sorta like letting the Fox do the henhouse inventory, and then glibly accepting the bottom line report. .



I've been close enough to business and their accounting methods to be VERY aware that what most of them post as bottom line profit bears LITTLE resemblance to reality - and that many business owners reporting annual profit losses to the IRS still live in the biggest homes, drive Rolls Royces, and have private planes...



I seriously doubt that the oil industry is any different - and yes, in the current economy, 10% (claimed) return *IS* unrealistic, when compared to what "profit" the rest of our working society and most other businesses is seeing - and I seriously doubt that 10% figure is even close to reality!



And don't even start down that oil/Microsoft comparison, that's apples/oranges... We HAVE to have economical energy to survive - we DON'T have to have the latest version PC software!



My main point in this thread relates to how quickly we adjust and forget - it's sorta like being deeply grateful and thanking the mugger who only shot us in both kneecaps, instead of the head.



And to address the profit claims of big oil, and the hope some might have that various senate/congressional investigations will yet deliver energy reductions and stability, well, that's sorta like one half of the Jesses James gang investigating the other half - after all, their ALL in the same gang, and in the same business!



All the articles *I* have seen related to big oil's profits and proposed requirements aimed at them, STILL stupidly relate to increased exploration and production of fossil fuels, both in our country and overseas - NO ONE in positions of authority and power have forsight enough to begin shifting our energy profits AWAY from oil, and on to alternative sources that can slow and eventually STOP our reliance upon foreign fossil fuels, and those who are robbing us to pay for them!



OPEC has been pointed out to have TRILLIONS of dollars in future oil supplies - would we rather continue shipping those trillions to THEM, or keep it HERE by developing our own energy sources?



It'll never happen, as long as we continue to blissfully fall for and accept what big oil and our own government, hand-in-hand, keep feeding us! We as a society are being HAS - and I for one, refuse to be grateful for, accept it - or keep quiet about it!

 

[RustyJC]

I just love it when the gullible so eagerly swallow the profit reports supplied by the oil companies and their paid mouthpieces - sorta like letting the Fox do the henhouse inventory, and then glibly accepting the bottom line report. .

Does the term "Sarbanes Oxley" mean anything to you? If so, then you should know how stringently corporate finances are monitored in today's post-Enron era. If not, you might want to Google awhile before you start throwing pejoratives around.



Rusty

 

[RustyJC]

I seriously doubt that the oil industry is any different - and yes, in the current economy, 10% (claimed) return *IS* unrealistic, when compared to what "profit" the rest of our working society and most other businesses is seeing...

OK, then (as I asked before), if you were king of the world, what profit percentage would you allow the oil companies to make?



Rusty

 

[DHayden]

I keep seeing people post that gas has dropped to 2. 10 or so... . why is the lowest gas has dropped here 2. 69? Usually we are on the cheaper side of the nations fuel avg. , now it seems we are getting hosed. Even El Paso is in the 2. 40's and we are usually cheaper then them.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

OK, then (as I asked before), if you were king of the world, what profit percentage would you allow the oil companies to make?



Rusty

FIRST, as to any particular reverence for the Sarbanes-Oxley act, increased accounting requirements over EXISTING tax allowances, deductions and loopholes are not likely to be any great hindrance to outfits making annual profits up in the 10 *BILLION* dollar range, and who buy politicians and accountants by the trainload...



"Sarbanes-Oxley allows firms to stay abreast of the proposed and final rules and regulations issued by the SEC to implement the Sarbanes-Oxley Act (SOX). "



We're supposed to be comforted and reassured by THAT?



NOW, as to your "King-of-the-world" bit, I would suggest the allowable profits of selected sensitive industries, drug companies, oil companies, etc. , be tied to domestic economical indexes, much as Social Security increases are - and that profit margins above such indexing be NOT kicked over to government to waste and squander, but be required and monitored to be used for (in the case of oil) strict research and development of alternative energy resources. They, the oil companies, would then stand to make the profit of THOSE efforts as well, while reducing their/our dependency of foreign sources.



Imagine, as of current conditions, that even if only 15-20% of current oil annual profits were mandated to be plowed back into alternative energy resources research and development, among several major oil company reported profits, there would be perhaps as much 5 *BILLION* dollars towards that development - do ya think that much $$$ just MIGHT generate positive results - and might ALSO motivate OPEC and others to start reassessing their strangle-hold monoply prices when they see what THEIR future quite likely holds?



OK, so now gripe and find fault about THAT suggestion - and while you're at it, tell us what YOU think should be done to shift this country away from reliance upon foreign energy - or do you really LIKE things the way they are?

 

[RustyJC]

FIRST, as to any particular reverence for the Sarbanes-Oxley act, increased accounting requirements over EXISTING tax allowances, deductions and loopholes are not likely to be any great hindrance to outfits making annual profits up in the 10 *BILLION* dollar range, and who buy politicians and accountants by the trainload...

I know for a fact that our company has internal and external auditors whose sole purpose is to ensure that our monthly, quarterly and annual financials are in absolute conformance with the provisions of Sarbanes-Oxley. As you may know, under Sarbanes-Oxley, a company's financial and executive management have to sign off verifying these financial results as being true and accurate under penalty of criminal prosecution. Our management takes this responsibility as seriously as it can, and seeing the gyrations we and our customers in the energy industry go through regarding transfer of custody, when an order can be closed and taken to sales, etc. , it is obvious that they do as well. You can choose to believe this or not - I see it every day.

"Sarbanes-Oxley allows firms to stay abreast of the proposed and final rules and regulations issued by the SEC to implement the Sarbanes-Oxley Act (SOX). "



We're supposed to be comforted and reassured by THAT?

Cut and pasted out of context, this statement is meaningless. Therefore, it gives me neither comfort nor discomfort.

NOW, as to your "King-of-the-world" bit, I would suggest the allowable profits of selected sensitive industries, drug companies, oil companies, etc. , be tied to domestic economical indexes, much as Social Security increases are - and that profit margins above such indexing be NOT kicked over to government to waste and squander, but be required and monitored to be used for (in the case of oil) strict research and development of alternative energy resources. They, the oil companies, would then stand to make the profit of THOSE efforts as well, while reducing their/our dependency of foreign sources.

So, in effect, you want a state-run oil industry?

OK, so now gripe about THAT suggestion - and while you're at it, tell us what YOU think should be done to shift this country away from reliance upon foreign energy - or do you really LIKE things the way they are?

There are any number of things that can be done, but the tree-huggers aren't going to like many of them. More reliance on nuclear power (essential if hydrogen is going to begin to be used in internal combustion engines, fuel cells, etc. ), loosening of restrictions on domestic drilling, more use of biomass and renewable fuel sources where practical (yes, this includes biodiesel), use of solar and wind to generate power when such is economically viable, and on and on.



One thing you need to consider, however - do you REALLY want to develop, utilize and exhaust this nation's finite energy resources in lieu of foreign energy? If you say yes, then consider the following - Where does that leave us geopolitically when our country's finite energy resources are depleted? As distasteful as it may be, there IS something to be said for burning OPEC's crude oil and leaving our limited reserves intact.



Rusty

 

[WyattEarp]

I have to say pple look the other way every day even and especially in big corporations, if you think paperwork doesn't get doctored your an idiot.

It would be nice to get a fair shake on this but one day those will get there well righted desserts. . Hope im around to see it, as far as im concerned and being someone that can hold my own and feed myself if our gov't was to all fall in the frikin sea and drowned it would be an omen, Maybe then we could put back in our constitution: FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE(NOT THE GOV'T) AND AS FOR PERSUIT OF HAPPINESS, THAT AIN'T HAPPENING, You know why, you can't even go take a good crap without some satellite picking up the curplunk as it hits bottom...

As for gas, the turbin heads have our gov't right where they want them, in their hand and it will always be that way. There is to much of this "i'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" in todays gov't and its showing.

Gas prices here are back down to around 2. 26 for regular and premium still 2. 60+ diesel around $3. And this supply and demand, dang that gets old...

As some of you know when i post i post my mind and am not particular as to whom it sets with or don't. Just my Opinion :-laf

 

[RustyJC]

I have to say pple look the other way every day even and especially in big corporations, if you think paperwork doesn't get doctored your (sic) an idiot.

More pejoratives? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

It would be nice to get a fair shake on this but one day those will get there well righted desserts... Hope im around to see it

Actually, you are seeing it. Do you read the business pages? Executives from Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia Cable and a number of other companies are standing trial for their misdeeds. That's a primary reason why Sarbanes-Oxley has other executives dotting every i and crossing every t today.

And this supply and demand, dang that gets old...

Old or not, the principles of Economics still apply.

As some of you know when i post i post my mind and am not particular as to whom it sets with or don't. Just my Opinion :-laf

We can discuss facts, or we can discuss opinions. My opinion is that a cogent, logical discussion of the facts is more fruitful, but that's just MY opinion.



Rusty

 

[Shrimpy]

For those who think Sarbanes-Oxley is just a play on words consider this..... I work for a super major oil firm. Our department receives back ANY and ALL suspect transactions. They include custody transfer of refined products invoices that are as little as 10 barrels in dispute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Consider 10 barrels (42 gallons x 10 barrels = 420 gallons) when the monthly thru put is in the 2. 5 MILLION BARREL RANGE. They want verification and reasons for this 420 gallon discrepancy. And they will NOT close books until every swinging dick up the line is satisfied with the reason.



Sure... ... ... ... . Sarbanes-Oxley means absolutely nothing to senior management .



Jim



P. S. Rusty, you will have better luck explaining basic economics to your dog than some of these guys... ... .

 

[WyattEarp]

actually some dogs probably do understand it better but i don't know of a dog that can speak his own mind on such a subject and lord forbid someone not like what another has to say on the subject... In reality does one not think that its a little to late to try and clean up a system that has been corrupt from day one, come on pple use some common sense, ahhhh then again how many of you think thats whats wrong with this country... Lack thereof, IE; Common sense approach that would be to easy.

No i do not read the financial pages, would not waste my time with such garbage, why fill my trash can with useless nonesense.



And yes we do understand basic economics, its the corporations and gov't that have failed to use the basics... when you spread yourself to thin and promise this and that to other countries because the gov't would hate to lose face and do the right thing, i mean really economics are not that hard to understand, duhhhh more going out than is coming in would be about as basic as it gets... take the waste of tax payer monies for example, pork barrels... and a gov't that has seen fit to only give themselves the cost of living increase instead of implementing it as it was intended... Working class america... . Oo.

 

[Jaysyl]

For those who think Sarbanes-Oxley is just a play on words consider this..... I work for a super major oil firm. Our department receives back ANY and ALL suspect transactions. They include custody transfer of refined products invoices that are as little as 10 barrels in dispute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Consider 10 barrels (42 gallons x 10 barrels = 420 gallons) when the monthly thru put is in the 2. 5 MILLION BARREL RANGE. They want verification and reasons for this 420 gallon discrepancy. And they will NOT close books until every swinging dick up the line is satisfied with the reason.



Sure... ... ... ... . Sarbanes-Oxley means absolutely nothing to senior management .



Jim



P. S. Rusty, you will have better luck explaining basic economics to your dog than some of these guys... ... . [/QUOTE Yet another good post