Ain't that a shame...

[Hohn]

That's funny. Look under WyattEarp's name. You'll see that he's appointed himself the "mouth of Wilson, VA".

Wyatt-- do you have your own show on AM radio?

Gary, don't let your fervency for weaning us from petroleum (good) take you into the conspiracy theorist territory (bad).


Answer me this: If the oil companies can raise prices because they control us, how come oil prices *ever* go down? I mean, if you were an oil company, wouldn't you want the highest price possible? Why do oil prices ever drop?

Gary just explained to us how we HAVE to have oil, so it's not like demand drops-- we NEED the stuff, and demand just keeps rising.


So-- all you guys who buy into the notion of the "evil oil company" explain to me why oil prices EVER go down???????

Oh, and the idea of comparing oil companies to other companies is TOTALLY valid. It's NOT apples-to oranges to compare oil corps to Microsoft or Wal Mart. I can explain why for the more obtuse, if need be.

 

[dmurdock]

Ummmm..... does anyone think that the price drop could have anything to do with (1. ) Gulf of Mexico crude oil production increasing as post-hurricane repairs are made and (2. ) ExxonMobil's Chalmette, LA refinery coming back on line this week? Naaa, of course not. It's much more fun to wear tinfoil hats and look for the black helicopters.



Rusty

Rusty, I had my tinfoil hat and berky water filter long before diesel went up :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[Jaysyl]

Hohn, there are people here who think making money is a crime. You will never be able to explain Eco 101 to them.

 

[RustyJC]

Rusty, you will have better luck explaining basic economics to your dog than some of these guys... ... .

Jim,



We have 2 Shelties. They're pretty darned smart. You may be right! :-laf



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I work for a super major oil firm. "



"I know for a fact that our company has internal and external auditors whose sole purpose is to ensure that our monthly, quarterly and annual financials are in absolute conformance with the provisions of Sarbanes-Oxley. "







AH, so now we're beginning to see what associations the guys happy with the status quo are involved in!



SO, Sarbanes-Oxley makes corporations play by the rules? Big deal, depending on what the rules ARE, and who gets to establish them! Do tax loopholes, depreciation allowances, and a TON of similar deductions disappear with Sarbanes-Oxley?



Or is just a case of Sarbanes-Oxley making sure the various corporations use the right caliber gun to hold the consumers up at the pump?



Seems pretty reasonable that those CLOSE to big oil would be VERY happy to see thing stay just as they are - just as they are to state that those disagreeing with them are merely stupid unwashed infidels...



"One thing you need to consider, however - do you REALLY want to develop, utilize and exhaust this nation's finite energy resources in lieu of foreign energy? If you say yes, then consider the following - Where does that leave us geopolitically when our country's finite energy resources are depleted? As distasteful as it may be, there IS something to be said for burning OPEC's crude oil and leaving our limited reserves intact. "



Rusty, you steadfastly demonstrate either the INABILITY or outright REFUSAL to acknowledge that MY comments on development of OUR OWN energy rexources revolve substantially around NUCLEAR (how do you deplete THAT?) - and replaceable BIO fuels (how do you deplete THAT?) and solar (how do you deplete THAT?). Plus a several other diverse number of other in-the-works research items that pop up and show potential as alternate energy sources - surely you have heard of and are aware of a few of them?



"So, in effect, you want a state-run oil industry?"



IF you'd like to twist my comment about a mandated application of what would be a rather SMALL percentage of profits above a still-generous margin allowance in the name and best interest of eliminating continued dependence upon being raped by various elements of big oil, HELL YES!



Most taxpayers would GLADLY see their individual end-of-year bottom line "profit" expand by 10% as the oil companies have - OR to have seen overall energy costs "only" rise by 10% for the year - but that certainly is NOT the case, is it!



Face it, this is ALREADY a state-run society - we are told what vehicles we can buy, and what equipment they must contain to comply with state and government regulations - as well as the annual dictated tests they must pass to stay on the road and WE, the consumer PAY for those those edicts after the maker marks up the cost to manufacture those vehicles - so what's new about state-run regulations, taxes and controls?



I'd just be happy to see a few regulations that have at least SOME small hope of benefitting our society as a whole, rather than the powerful selected few...

 

[RustyJC]

"I work for a super major oil firm. "



"I know for a fact that our company has internal and external auditors whose sole purpose is to ensure that our monthly, quarterly and annual financials are in absolute conformance with the provisions of Sarbanes-Oxley. "







AH, so now we're beginning to see what associations the guys happy with the status quo are involved in!

Ummm... . you didn't intentionally cut and paste a sentence from Shrimpy's post next to mine to make it appear that I work for a major oil firm, did you? After all, that would be intellectually dishonest.



Rusty

 

[Shrimpy]

I don't have time for a lengthly response, but Wyatt you and I (and Rusty probably) have more in common in our politics based on the last part of your response. I don't want to speak for Rusty, but you are correct in the last paragraph of your response.



Jim

 

[DHayden]

Hohn, there are people here who think making money is a crime. You will never be able to explain Eco 101 to them.

I'm glad you guys can say eco 101, wow thats great, say it again... . oooh yes I feel quite inferior. What you lap dogs don't understand is that many do understand eco 101 (can we drop that recording now?) and it is about the fact of companies raping people for the pure fact that they can. Is it against the law? No. Are we not understanding economics? No. Are you so caught in your oil and profits that someone can't say that they think 89% profit is wrong? Good god nobody is in your pockets so quite trying to make it sound like their stupid, if you guys could come up with anything than "eco 101 ) you might not sound so ignorant yourselves. People have an opinion... they aren't ignorant.



What really gets peoples goat is that prices sky rocket at thought of anything happening to the supply of oil but they sure don't come down nearly as fast or to the same level. Yeah supply and demand and economics, you can eat that BS right along with your 89% profit. You may be able to throw out the old standbye "economics! economics!" but its a crap load of money grubbing, its not against the law, no one should care.



If water prices sky rocket because of katrina, thats just supply and demand. Those people NEED it (well they don't need it, they can change their life style), but screwem cause we know they cant do without it. That's how economics works baby. They lost everything and cant afford it but someone else will afford it and buy it for them because those people need it. Oh yeah! Nation disaster/emergency is the economic pot of gold, it certainly has no other effects on anyone else.



This is America! Profit over good sense, good taste or morals. Thanks for the economy lessons.

 

[RustyJC]

Jim,



I wasn't about to head off down the government spending bunny trail, but you're absolutely right. I don't spend money that I don't have, I don't borrow money and agree wholeheartedly that the day is fast approaching as a nation when we're going to have to pay the piper.



To bring the discussion back to energy prices, the decline in value of the dollar due to (among other things) deficit spending is one reason for the increase in price of dollar-denominated crude oil. The sellers (especially internationally) will fight any loss of purchasing power as the dollar declines by raising their prices to compensate, at least as much as the market allows.



Rusty

 

[Jaysyl]

DHayden, you are welcome jaysyl

 

[RustyJC]

Are you so caught in your oil and profits that someone can't say that they think 89% profit is wrong?... . Yeah supply and demand and economics, you can eat that BS right along with your 89% profit.

The highest profit as a percentage of revenues I saw in the Houston Chronicle this morning for the oil companies listed was 10%. The lowest was 7%. I certainly didn't see any of them making 89%. Can you provide a cite?



Rusty

 

[DHayden]

Hohn, there are people here who think making money is a crime. You will never be able to explain Eco 101 to them.

Your so insightful you don't even realize NO ONE said making money is a crime, taking advantage of people during crisis or disaster should be a crime. We all expect prices to go up (because we understand economics). We would just simply hope someone wouldnt try to make the MOST PROFIT out of a very bad situation. Again, its not against the law, its our opinion.

DHayden, you are welcome jaysyl

and to be sure, you havent taught anyone anything... thanks should have gone to rusty

 

[Jaysyl]

Your so insightful you don't even realize NO ONE said making money is a crime, taking advantage of people during crisis or disaster should be a crime. We all expect prices to go up (because we understand economics). We would just simply hope someone wouldnt try to make the MOST PROFIT out of a very bad situation. Again, its not against the law, its our opinion.

And what makes your opinion any better than anyone else. ?????

 

[DHayden]

And what makes your opinion any better than anyone else. ?????

I don't recall claiming or implying my opinion was better than anyone else. I also didn't try to say you were ignorant thus don't even understand your own opinion such as:

P. S. Rusty, you will have better luck explaining basic economics to your dog than some of these guys.....

and

You will never be able to explain Eco 101 to them.

Rusty I have to go to an appointment but I will look it up and post it in a few hours after I get home.

 

[Jaysyl]

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Ummm... . you didn't intentionally cut and paste a sentence from Shrimpy's post next to mine to make it appear that I work for a major oil firm, did you? After all, that would be intellectually dishonest.



Rusty

No, that was not my intent - my intent was that close affiliations SOME opposing the anti-big oil topics discussed here apparently result from either that association with big oil, or the suggested thought that measures like Sarbanes-Oxley are the cure-all for energy related management and profits in the oil industry.



And MY response is, all THAT does, is make sure the oil companies actually DO in terms of accounting and record-keeping what they have long since been supposed to do.



As far as I have seen in Sarbanes-Oxley, there are NO new controls or regulations for the oil companies as to actual operation or profit margins - it doesn't STOP them from raping us, only makes them accurately report how GOOD they were at the job...

 

[mpwalker]

We can drop the price of fuel by an average of 46 cents per gallon if we get the Federal, State and Local governments to drop the taxes during the period of shortage of supply. That is the average of all taxes per gallon of fuel and since our roads do not seem to be getting any better why not just stop collecting the taxes. If we want to deny a oil company the right to what some refer to as "excess profits" can we also agree to not allow excess taxes?

 

[JimKing]

Gas retailers raking in profits



Ken Alltucker

The Arizona Republic

Oct. 31, 2005 07:57 PM



Arizona gasoline retailers are taking in their largest profits of the year, with station owners collecting nearly 35 cents for every gallon sold.



The gross profit margin, which is about three times the retailers' typical profit of 12. 5 cents per gallon in the region, reflects the current wide spread between what retailers are paying for gasoline from their wholesale sources and what they are charging their customers.



Station owners in the Phoenix-Mesa area last week took at average profit of 33 cents per gallon, according to figures provided by AAA Arizona. advertisement









"Nobody wants to be the first guy to start lowering prices if they don't have to," said AAA spokesman David Cowley, who tracks Valley gasoline prices. "The comedown is when they make their money. "



As wholesale prices drop, station owners tend to pass along those savings to motorists at a snail's pace.



Industry representatives maintain that there's nothing sinister about collecting the larger profits. Gasoline retailers, particularly independently owned stations not affiliated with major oil companies, depend on the spread between wholesale and retail prices to make money.

 

[JimKing]

Oil industry under fire as it posts billions in profits



Max Jarman

The Arizona Republic

Oct. 28, 2005 12:00 AM



Reaction to major oil producers' staggering profits ranges from rage at the pumps to calls for profits to be reinvested in exploration, alternative-energy research or simply returned somehow to the public.



Exxon Mobile Corp. , the world's largest publicly traded oil company, said Thursday that it earned an industry record $9. 9 billion in this year's third quarter, $4. 2 billion, or 74 percent, more than it earned a year earlier. Other companies have reported similar results.



Besides Exxon's 74 percent jump in profits, Royal Dutch Shell reported Thursday that its third-quarter net income rose 68 percent to $9 billion and Conoco Phillips on Wednesday said that its third-quarter profit rose 90 percent to $3. 8 billion. ChevronTexaco is expected to report earnings Friday of $3. 9 billion, a jump of 53 percent over the third quarter of 2004.

 

[DHayden]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102700449.html



Exxon Mobil (XOM, news, msgs) raked in $100 billion in just three months, and $10 billion went right onto its bottom line



http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CNBCTV/Articles/Dispatches/P134024.asp



That would be a PROFIT of $4. 45 Million dollars an hour during that 3 month period which breaks down to a profit of $74,667 Minute. Which over all in the name of "economics and capitalism" wouldn't be bad except it was up to 89% higher than the year before and was taking advantage of people necessity during time of need not "good product and sales marketing" as someone described it before.



Also Hohn your right we can't control OPEC (I think from another thread) but that does not mean they are not a monopoly and setting prices. A monopoly has no place in a capitalism correct?