Ain't that a shame...

[Coolslice]

Hmmm, rather than a long, drawn out post, I just have a question. .



If profits increased 74% and 68% respectively in a one year period, then certainly demand must have risen at a similar rate, correct?



I read an article that claimed if you went back to 03 and figured the cost of a gallon of gas based on the price of a barrel of oil, then oil would have to be between $95-$100 a barrel to justify current prices today.



Perhaps if the Govt wasn't profitting more from gas prices then the oil companies, we might see some action...

 

[DHayden]

Perhaps if the Govt wasn't profitting more from gas prices then the oil companies, we might see some action...

In all sincerity, are you just saying that or is it fact? Last I saw it costs Saudi Arabia $1. 25 to pump a barrel of crude, factor in refinery, transportation and overhead costs and I'm willing to bet the oil company is making more per gallon then the government is. I could be wrong on that point and would be more than happy if someone can prove the actual statistic.



How much exactly are you thinking our demand went up to raise their profit 89%? We are talking a year here. Katrina, Rita and refineries being shut down had more effect than demand. Again I may be wrong, I welcome anyone to show our demand went up that much over a year.

 

[GFritsch]

Gas retailers raking in profits QUOTE]



Simple fact of business, profit is not possible without sales. Who is more responsible for profit, the seller or the buyer? If prices were artificially lower than demand, there would be a lack of supply. I am not much on waiting in line for cheaper anything. Which is better, cheap fuel that is not available, or fuel at market value available whenever you need it?



Just some food for thought.



Greg

 

[WyattEarp]

Gary you hit the nail on the head, hmmmm wonder how many of those from down there are affiliated, can you say backing.

And man, cut and paste the heck out of things, wow!! someone has way to much time on their hands... But i stand firm behind what i said, take it or leave it, i really doesn't bother me, as for me having a radio show, you could only wish and as for the area i live, yep i love these mountains and all the things that go with it, wished all these so called tourist would find their way home, guess they will have to live my gun toting, both diesel belching rigs and my attitude to not take no crap period.

Seems to me that Gary hit someting on the head their with hitting close to the being affilitated or could it be some have stock or interest in these companies, ahhhhhhh say that ain't so... tsk tsk... Wait until the day comes when things shut down and the grocery stores have nothing on the shelves. . I have one question when the S*** hits the fan, can you provide for your family? where will your food come from? Remember us Farmers, yeah needless to say we hold the whole country in our hands, not so much the oil companies and guess who makes billions vs pennies, it sure ain't us, let housing and urbanization keep going at this rate, gas will be the least of your worries.

As for gas dropping, we all know its the typical all to common psychological game played by companies, remember the grocery stores, wonder why they are all set up basically the same, why certain items stand out more than others, cause they realize that most pple impulse buy and not out of necessity and why some items are closer to the bottom of the shelf than others, they have analyst's that do this for a living pple, come on everyone knows that gas at 3 bucks for a few weeks is hurting but then oh they dropped it 15cents, wow were getting a break,, nope actually your still getting screwed, they can only do it easier because your all ready bent over...

An to think i was man enough to not mention names, I think some should get a dose of what real life is like instead of reading about it in the financial news...



AND THAT CONCLUDES THE TALK SHOW FOR TONIGHT :-laf

 

[Coolslice]

In all sincerity, are you just saying that or is it fact? Last I saw it costs Saudi Arabia $1. 25 to pump a barrel of crude, factor in refinery, transportation and overhead costs and I'm willing to bet the oil company is making more per gallon then the government is. I could be wrong on that point and would be more than happy if someone can prove the actual statistic.



How much exactly are you thinking our demand went up to raise their profit 89%? We are talking a year here. Katrina, Rita and refineries being shut down had more effect than demand. Again I may be wrong, I welcome anyone to show our demand went up that much over a year.

I have heard this several times before, although I don't have a source to point you towards. I've always accepted it as fact considering oil companies have many costs associated w/ making their product, not as many as they would like us to believe, but none the less they have them. The govt. just takes money from every gallon sold, yet it costs them nothing. Makes sense to me. This may not be true today considering that the oil companies are obviously making more money per gallon than ever before.

 

[CSnyder]

All of you guys that are for the oil companies making huge profits can kiss my arse. I live in a small farming community and have seen an alarming amount of farmers sell out because of the unbearable fuel prices. Some are even leaving their crops in the field to wait for insurance companies to pay them for a lost crop since they can at least make a dime doing that versus taking the crops out and breaking even. I think it is utter BS that the government doesn't step in and take care of what makes this country tick. And for those of you who don't understand a farmers economics perhaps you should take a day off and go watch a farm sale and pay particular attention to the owner of the farm... he won't be hard to miss as he will be the one holding his spouse and weeping on and off as he watches people buy, load, and drive off with what he worked his entire life to build and buying his things for only pennies on the dollar. It is sad knowing that these guys have lost many nights sleep worrying about how to keep going and they come out in the end with barely enough money to pay one years taxes and are forced to move to an apartment in town after all the years of hard labor and sweat they indured in their lives to keep our economy running. But you don't and never will see government allow them to capitalize on their business as is allowed for the oil companies and I firmly believe that the American farmers are just as important as oil is. The day will come when all of the small farmers will be run out of business and corporate farms run off the government will take their place and then we will be paying 10 bucks for a gallon of milk and 20 bucks for a pound of hamburger. I am only happy that life is short and soon enough I won't have to worry about it no longer.



Chris... starving farmer in Iowa

 

[R-N-R]

Good point Chris, it is not the prices, but the impact of the prices that really counts.



I am all for any company making a good healthy profit, but not necessarily all in one year, and not with energy resources. So the oil companies are making huge profits... . what are they doing with the profits??? R&D or tooling up for better future energy resources, or stuffing their mattresses?



Anybody know what do the trucking, rail, and shipping industries have to say about this situation?



Also, I do think that OPEC can be controlled, at least to some degree. With regard to backscratching, it seems like the US is doing all of the scratching. It pains me to know what resources, money or otherwise is going from our pockets to outside of our country. And I am only vaguely aware of the surface of this activity. When is it time for the USA to play hardball with the world???? They do not seem to have a problem sticking it to us in the sake of taking care of themselves. Don't get me wrong, I am all for helping out the needy, as long as they are helping themselves as well. But life is life, we won't be able to help out for the long run if we don't take care of ourselves enroute.

 

[RustyJC]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102700449.html



Exxon Mobil (XOM, news, msgs) raked in $100 billion in just three months, and $10 billion went right onto its bottom line



Which over all in the name of "economics and capitalism" wouldn't be bad except it was up to 89% higher than the year before and was taking advantage of people necessity during time of need not "good product and sales marketing" as someone described it before.

$10 billion in profit on $100 billion in revenues is 10%, as I reported. The 89% increase in profits is pretty meaningless unless the corresponding increase in revenues is given as well.



Rusty

 

[RustyJC]

All of you guys that are for the oil companies making huge profits can kiss my arse. I live in a small farming community and have seen an alarming amount of farmers sell out because of the unbearable fuel prices. Some are even leaving their crops in the field to wait for insurance companies to pay them for a lost crop since they can at least make a dime doing that versus taking the crops out and breaking even. I think it is utter BS that the government doesn't step in and take care of what makes this country tick. And for those of you who don't understand a farmers economics perhaps you should take a day off and go watch a farm sale and pay particular attention to the owner of the farm... he won't be hard to miss as he will be the one holding his spouse and weeping on and off as he watches people buy, load, and drive off with what he worked his entire life to build and buying his things for only pennies on the dollar. It is sad knowing that these guys have lost many nights sleep worrying about how to keep going and they come out in the end with barely enough money to pay one years taxes and are forced to move to an apartment in town after all the years of hard labor and sweat they indured in their lives to keep our economy running. But you don't and never will see government allow them to capitalize on their business as is allowed for the oil companies and I firmly believe that the American farmers are just as important as oil is. The day will come when all of the small farmers will be run out of business and corporate farms run off the government will take their place and then we will be paying 10 bucks for a gallon of milk and 20 bucks for a pound of hamburger. I am only happy that life is short and soon enough I won't have to worry about it no longer.



Chris... starving farmer in Iowa

Sounds like what my company faced when crude oil was $11/barrel in 1998. We shut down 3 manufacturing plants and numerous branch service offices in the late 1990s with the loss of thousands of jobs because our customers in the energy industry weren't buying engines and compressors and weren't spending money to maintain and repair the ones they had. Of course, the result was that fuel was cheap back then, so others were benefitting from the pain in the energy industry and its suppliers. Unfortunately, it seems that one man's boom times are another man's economic crisis.



Rusty

 

[WyattEarp]

Csnyder thank you very much, I rest my case on this and Chris just put the nail in the coffin for several.

See i knew it would come out, as Gary said some have interest in oil.

And as far as one mans boom time is anothers crisis, hmmmmm last time i checked i didn't know any humans that ran off of gas or diesel, unless your so die hard and convinced these oil companies are the victims(yeah right!) that you run to the corner station and stick the fuel nozzel in your mouth. Oo.

 

[DHayden]

The 89% increase in profits is pretty meaningless unless the corresponding increase in revenues is given as well.



Rusty

I know where you are with this and we will just say we agree to disagree. 89% increase in profit in a year time frame is hardly meaningless. I guarantee you the oil companies were not pleading poverty last year with their revenue.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"89% increase in profit in a year time frame is hardly meaningless. I guarantee you the oil companies were not pleading poverty last year with their revenue. "





NOPE, no claims of poverty by the oil companies - but they WERE reported to be caught shutting down various refineries at unusual and unexpected times - to artificially reduce supplies and increase demand (prices!) according to some critics...





NOW, do ya suppose that sort of production manipulation is perfectly legal - and is that sort of fast shuffle something the vaunted Sarbanes-Oxley controls - or is their only real function to make sure the "repairs" are carefully documented, and all the T's crossed and i's dotted...



I personally suspect Sarbanes-Oxley is little more than a paper tiger - lots of extra paperwork, but little actual benefit down at the consumer level...

 

[rivercat]

my opinion is humble in that I do not have a big education in economics, but

seems to me that it is out of the way for the gov. to tax a nessesity so heavily, and not control its price to a set standard. The prime rate controls intrest in the banks. I feel it is one thing to tax unnessisary things like beer and tobacco and other pleasure items/goods but not fuel as it is a nessesity for life. we shouldn't be slaves to the oil companys or the government for taxing all motor trasportation. we are not slaves to the power company we can do without that if need to, one could raise children without power. But one cannot lead a succesful life without transportation at this point. not only do goods pass each other on the intrestate due to the lowest bidder being at a far off location but workers too I meet people from 2hrs away working here and have friends working 2hrs away in consrruction and other trades. I was told once by a fellow at a social gathering that there is 100,000 dollars in tax made off of one loaf of bread if you follow it from start to finish I called BS and I drank no less than 4 beers before he got done telling me all the steps and how they were taxed and now I belive it. From property tax on dirt to sales tax in store there is a lot of trasporting going on and a lot of fuel burned.


Remember "Nessecity is the mother of invention" the nation will right its self in time.

sorry about the long pointless post

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

" I feel it is one thing to tax unnessisary things like beer and tobacco and other pleasure items/goods but not fuel as it is a nessesity for life. we shouldn't be slaves to the oil companys or the government for taxing all motor trasportation. "



I guess those balking at a "state run oil industry" have never heard of the PUC (Public Utilities Commission) and Railroad commission - one regulates stuff like electricity (You don't REALLY "need", or have any "right" to have or use electricity - use candles instead of lights... ) and the Railroad commission regulates rates trucks and other transportation businesses can charge customers.



Part of the above was originated to protect customers, the rest to regulate, equalize and stabilize transportation costs - but should we have anything like a "Public Energy Commission"?



NAHHhhhhh - wouldn't wanna hinder "free enterprise" - or give the energy-buying suckers ANY sort of a break or protection against runaway capitalism at the fuel pumps...

 

[Coolslice]

I know you guys have seen this before, but for those who have not-

http://wyden.senate.gov/leg_issues/reports/wyden_oil_report.pdf



This is from 2001, I wonder what Wyden is thinking these days? It's obvious that whomever this report was meant to get the attention of didn't seem to care.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I know you guys have seen this before, but for those who have not-

http://wyden.senate.gov/leg_issues/reports/wyden_oil_report.pdf



This is from 2001, I wonder what Wyden is thinking these days? It's obvious that whomever this report was meant to get the attention of didn't seem to care.

Very interesting reading - and another brick in a wall damning government and big oil - and their disdain for voters and customers as they eagerly choose profit over the health of our society.



BUT, and sadly, while the majority here will express disgust at what that article reveals, there will still be the few who applaud the fraud and manipulation of government and corporate oil "leaders" as their God-given RIGHT to rape customers in the name of capitalistic free enterprise...

 

[Coolslice]

Another thing is that so many want to blame this administration for the cost of energy. . While that may OR may not be somewhat true, it's obvious that this problem was "on the radar screen" long before Bush took office. It's a problem that goes far beyond surface politics IMO.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Another thing is that so many want to blame this administration for the cost of energy. . While that may OR may not be somewhat true, it's obvious that this problem was "on the radar screen" long before Bush took office. It's a problem that goes far beyond surface politics IMO.

Agreed!

 

[HBarlow]

I could read this discussion and simply laugh but then I remember that many citizens who don't understand simple economics or the principles upon which our great nation was founded and became the wealthiest and mightiest in world history . . . are registered voters. I worry about our future.



Harvey

 

[RGardner]

A couple of random thoughts on this post: 1) I believe that the state and federal taxes on fuel are on a per gallon basis so unless more gallons are sold the governments don't make more money on increased prices. 2) Any one who believes that the oil companies didn't make the most of this situation is fooling themselves. 3) Sarbane Oxley has had one very large effect in that it has forced many small accounting firms out of the auditing business due to the increased expense and demands made on them. 4) Take a look at all of the big accounting firms and you will see that they have all had some problems. 5) I have no doubt that the big oil companys have done all they could to beat those profits down to the levels that they are.