Air Bags, or Not

[CTRice]

Hi Fellow Mopar Friends,



I have been a member for about a year, but never posted a thread before.

I have a 2006 3500 Laramie 4x4 SRW Quad Short Box with 48re. I also have a 2001 Cardinal 28ft fiver that I tow with my CTD. I have only towed once so far. No problems were experienced, but I made several observations that beg questions.



When hitched, the fiver compresses the rear leaf springs down to the overload springs and a fraction beyond. The truck looks level when standing still, but tends to drop slightly in the rear on starting from a stop.



My questions are:

1. Is this a normal condition?

2. Is it ok to tow with the load partially taken up by the overloads?

3. If not, what has been the best and most cost effective fix?

4. Should I ensure that the truck rear stays at or higher than level?

5. What is the best approach for this issue?



Thanks, Chuck

________________________________________________________________



2006 Laramie 3500 CTD 4x4 Quad SRW SB Inferno Red

-Reese 16k Slider Hitch

-Chrome Accents

-BD X-Monitor

1997 SLT 1500 4x4 5. 2gas Winter Beater w/195,000 miles

 

[CarlJensen]

Overloads are for exactly the situation you have. Saying that, I took overloads off mine and installed air bags for the control and better ride. To each his own. I like the ability to level the rig when I am hooked up no matter the load. Keeps the geometry right and makes for a better tow.

 

[redfuelrules]

I have air bags on my 05. Both upper mounts are bent. IMO There isn't enough room between frame and axle for airbags on the 3rd generation trucks. I plan on adding extra leafs to the main leaf packs and replacing the airbags with timbrens. Plus, in order to mantain a comfortable ride with the airbags, I needed to add taller bumpstops for the 'helper springs' on my 3500, without them, the truck would bottom against the helper springs when empty and jar the truck.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

I would not leave home without them... ... ... ... ...

 

[TowPro]

Instead of loosing the wheel travel that an air bag causes, I elected to install new bump stops on the overload spring perches on my 06 3500 SRW. Now the with the 36' Titanium hooked up the truck rides level.

Before installing the bump stops I noticed the steering seemed to wander while towing at highway speeds, the bump stops stopped this problem. I think it had to do with as the rear ride hight dropped the front end toe changed.



Here is another thread on this subject. I think the part numbers are listed in there.



the stock bumpers are around 3/4" and the new ones are 2 5/8". the old ones were hard but the new ones have a hollow core so as the spring loads onto the new bushings they "squish" some so its not really adding 2" to your ride hight when loaded. Ask anybody that has them, they are the trick to solve your problem. I leave them on all the time, I don't feel them (or hear them) hit when running empty.



they look like the black one on the top/LS of this picture.

#ad

 

[puller]

air bags

I installed Firestone air bags on my 06 3500 dually 2 wheel drive. At the same I installed a 1 1/2 lift to the front end. The total gvw of truck and trailer ready to go camping is 23,760. I noticed 2 things after the installs.



1, It doesn't ride like a truck anymore even empty the ride is better. (I put 80lbs air when loaded and 15lbs empty)

2. It seems to have cured the shudder when starting off when loaded.



Puller

 

[CTRice]

Air Bags or Not

Thanks for the information guys.



I have orderd a set of overload bump stops from 4 wheel parts.com. The cost was $33. 99 per set of two. I ordered two sets. I presume they have to be installed on all four bump stop brackets. If this is not correct, please let me know. When I have them installed, I will report back my findings.



I also would like to know how 3500s ride after they have had extra leaves added to their rear spring packs. My wife has had some back issues after long rides in our old GMC D-Max Dually and I don't want to get into that again.



Thanks, Chuck



_________________________________________________________________ Chuck

-2006 3500 Laramie Quad Cab CTD 4x4 SRW SB 48RE Inferno Red

- X-Monitor

- Reece 16K Slider w/Prodigy

- Chrome Accents

- Rhino Liner

-2001 Cardinal 28XL Fifth Whl two slides RR Kitchen

-1997 1500 SLT Club Cab 5. 2 Gas 4x4 SB Winter Beater w/195,000 mi

 

[GWBourne]

LOVE my airbags. i keep thinking about going out and removing the overload leaves... but decide not to when i see how cold it is outside... lol

 

[TowPro]

Thanks for the information guys.



I also would like to know how 3500s ride after they have had extra leaves added to their rear spring packs. My wife has had some back issues after long rides in our old GMC D-Max Dually and I don't want to get into that again.



Thanks, Chuck

The 3500 main spring actual rides softer then the 2500 main spring does. They did this because the 3500 has the overload springs that start to work once the truck gets weight on it where the 2500 main spring carries all the weight.



Before you start adding springs, wait until you install the bump stops and take it for a ride. You will probably find the bump stops is all you needed

 

[Dieselnerd]

I've been following this thread and I've also ordered the bump stops that TowPro suggested. In my situation I also sag slightly with the fiver hooked up but that isn't my main concern. I only tow twice a year, down to AZ after Christmas and back home in April.



In the summer I use a slide in camper and travel quite a bit with it. It's light enough that I don't quite touch the bump stops even fully loaded for travel and 24 gallons of water. There is still about 1/4 inch between the overloads and the bump stops. I'm sure with the thicker stops it will be a lot more solid ride with less sway.

 

[y-knot]

You should have saved your $30 something and put it towards a REAL solution. Weather you chose to allow your truck to bottom out on the stock or aftermarket bump-stops makes no difference, it is still bottoming out, which makes for a real great ride (sarcasm). The best solution, is to have a solution. The air bags allow you to adjust the ride height and the load to your liking. All of which makes for a much better ride loaded or unloaded. To bad you chose the easy route.

 

[Dieselnerd]

Y-knot, I don't understand your statement, my truck is not "bottoming out". What I said was it isn't heavy enough to even touch the overload springs. These bump stops don't mount on the axle, they mount on the frame where the overload springs touch with a heavy load. The effect is to move the overloads closer so they engage a little sooner. As far as I'm concerned, larger bump stops are a "real solution". How could I need air bags when I don't even touch the overload springs when my camper is on board?

 

[GaryCarter]

Regarding the original post, I would change nothing. If the truck is level at rest, it's perfect.

Squat under starting torque is normal. It's probably not even so much the rear end squatting as the front rising when you get on it from a standing start.



Gary

 

[JERRYKAM]

For what its worth here is my two cents. I have an 06 2500 and tow a 9500 (dry) 5th wheel. Pin weight is approx 1800lb when loaded for a trip. This puts me about 200lb under max. Add in all my junk and Im pushing 8-900 over max. But that is another story. I have installed firestone air bags instead of installing an overload spring pack (ie 3500). As noted earlier in this thread clearance is an issue that needs to be carefully checked. I had to install my bags using custom made brackets because of the interference with the pullrite hitch mounting brackets. The custom air spring brackets allowed me to optimize the frame to tire clearance.



How do they perform. In one word. Great. Truck can be leveled to compensate for any truck load and the ride is not severely compromised. Lets face it hauling any 5th wheel is going to degrade the ride to some degree. I run 30psi when hauling the 5ver and 5psi unloaded.



Jerry K

 

[zippinbye]

I do not do extreme-articulation, Moab-style rock crawling, but I do "off-road. " I have never felt that the Firestone air bags compromised axle travel. Obviously, they do occupy space that used to be unencumbered, but I have never felt a solid bottom-out, nor are the brackets bent. Ditto to all the afore-mentioned positive comments in other posts. I installed the bags in anticipation of a slide-in camper, while figuring I would enjoy the towing benefits in the mean time. Haven't got the camper yet, but the bags are worth every penny for my estimated 1500+ lb. tongue weight. As I transit ferry terminal ramps at odd angles, I deflate to zero in order to minimize rear trailer beam drag. About half the time, I forget to reinflate until I get on "wavy" roads near our vacation place. The bouncy, cyclic ride I used to accept goes away with the first 10 psi pumped back in the Firestones, and I usually run up to 20 or so (can't imagine a need for the rated 90 psi) for a ride that is way better than empty. Even on the freeway, a subtle oscillation previously occurred when even slight ripples in the road were encountered. That's history. As a side note, the Bobcat operator at the local landscape supply place freaked when I told him to put in two full yards of rich top soil ("ya know a half yard weighs 1000 lbs. and most people don't take more than one yard!"). Turns out that filled level to the top of the box is two yards. With less than 5 psi during loading, the bags allowed the overload springs to compress, and it looked like your typical half ton loaded with masonry blocks that we see all too often. Back to level and a soft ride with about 30 psi. Of course I was way over the 9900 lb. GVW for the 12 mile trip home, but it drove like a dream. With my toneau on, it did not even look like almost six tons of truck! I can't imagine longer bump stops providing the enhancements and versatility achieved with the bags. If you get airbags, in cab controls and on-board air are NOT optional, they are necessary to exploit the full value of the bags. Do get the split controls so that each bag can be operated separately - especially handy for leveling the truck while parked on a slight slope for a temporary overnight spot with your camper or fifth wheel. Also, get the biggest compressor they offer. Mine is the middle of the road that Firestone offers, and has an accumulator tank. Works great for the bags, but is too low volume for airing up your truck tires, or anything else for that matter. I do not think that the auto-leveling feature that is available would be useful. Manual control and "seat of the pants" adjustment works great. It probably took me 8 hrs. to do the install. Being a novice, no air tools and no shop lift probably make me slower than most. I could do another in half the time, since I experimented with different ideas for mounting and routing of various components. I believe the system is set up in a manner much more to my liking than a shop would achieve. For most shade-tree mechanics, this would be a 3 on a 10 scale. Firestones, a bed cover and a DVD player are my only add-ons so far. If I had to pick only one mod, guess which it would be? If my overly-lengthy rant does not give it away, the air bags get a big two thumbs up!

 

[SearsK]

For what its worth here is my two cents. I have an 06 2500 and tow a 9500 (dry) 5th wheel. Pin weight is approx 1800lb when loaded for a trip. This puts me about 200lb under max. Add in all my junk and Im pushing 8-900 over max. But that is another story. I have installed firestone air bags instead of installing an overload spring pack (ie 3500). As noted earlier in this thread clearance is an issue that needs to be carefully checked. I had to install my bags using custom made brackets because of the interference with the pullrite hitch mounting brackets. The custom air spring brackets allowed me to optimize the frame to tire clearance.



How do they perform. In one word. Great. Truck can be leveled to compensate for any truck load and the ride is not severely compromised. Lets face it hauling any 5th wheel is going to degrade the ride to some degree. I run 30psi when hauling the 5ver and 5psi unloaded.



Jerry K

Jerry, what kind of pull-rite hitch do you have? I currently have a f350 dually, pull-rite, and firestone air bags - no problems. My new 3500 dodge dually just came in yesterday and I plan to use my 20k pull-rit and firestones on it, Kerry

 

[tgrfan2]

Y-knot, I don't understand your statement, my truck is not "bottoming out". What I said was it isn't heavy enough to even touch the overload springs. These bump stops don't mount on the axle, they mount on the frame where the overload springs touch with a heavy load. The effect is to move the overloads closer so they engage a little sooner. As far as I'm concerned, larger bump stops are a "real solution". How could I need air bags when I don't even touch the overload springs when my camper is on board?

I think you would find the helper springs give a much harsher ride than air bags when they are just barely "on". My 3500 does the pogo when it rebounds with a normal load. My friends 03 3500 SRW needed 3000# of pin wgt to ride decent with overloads. I am planning to trash the overloads on my 3500 and go with air bags like my two 12Vs.

With air bags you can adjust to the load you have infinitely. Since you obviously have a lighter pin wgt you don't need the harsher overloads anyway. I run 50-60# of air in the bags on my 2500 depending on how much water I am carrying. W/O any water on board I have a 2700# pin wgt. I can level the truck no matter my pin wgt and I am still running original rear shocks at 215K whereas I need stiffer shocks on the 06 with 16K sometimes now to handle that spring rebound.

 

[CPG]

I tend to agree with GaryCarter. Its plain hard to beat a level ride. If not careful, lifting the rear end tends to put more weight on the rear axle of the trailer do to the equilizer beam. The 28' trailer is not that long. Your first trip or so should have made up your mind for the overall ride. Your 3500 truck is just loafing with that thing. Thats what your progressive springing is for, as long as your not ramming the stop all the time, leave it be.

 

[CTRice]

Hello,

I have received my overload spring bushings from 4 Wheel Parts.com, and installed them in place of the factory bushings. This question is directed to TowPro, but anybody with the experience is invited to answer my questions.



1. When I removed the factory bushings I noticed that they have two tangs

that engage two corresponding holes in the bracket to prevent them from

rotating. The new polyurethane bushings do not have any anti rotation

features. Has anyone using these bushings experienced rotation and

misalignment of these bushings??



2. When installing the new taller bushings, I found that the overload springs

were not the same distance from their respective brackets. The right

spring was about 1/2 inch closer than the left spring. Is this difference

within the acceptable build parameters for a Ram 3500 4x4 QC SB??



Thanks, Chuck

_________________________________________________________________

2006 Ram 3500 Laramie QC SB 4x4 48re Inferno Red

- 16K Reese Slider & Prodigy

- Chrome Accents

- X-Monitor (not yet installed)

2001 Cardinal 28ft Fiver- 2 Slides Rr Kitchen

1997 Ram 1500 CC SB 4x4 Polar White Winter Beater w/195,500mi

 

[CTRice]

I have installed the new overload spring bushings. I still have two questions I am hoping you can answer. :

1. The factory bushings had two tangs that engaged the bracket to prevent rotation. The new bushings have no anti-rotation features. Has rotation been a problem??



2. Upon installation, I found that the distances between the new taller bushings and the brackets were different by 1/2 inch. side to side. The right side was closer to the brackets than the left side. Is 1/2 inch difference side to side fall within the normal build tolerances for these trucks??

Thanks, Chuck