Air Filter Questions/Response

[llotton]

After reading some of the input about air filters and the fact that some dealers were saying that the use of aftermarket filters would void the engine warranty I asked AFE and this is what they said From: "Melissa Harstad" <melissah@afefilters.com>

To: "Larry Lotton" <slofl@prodigy.net>

Subject: RE: afe drop in filter/Dodge Cummins 2003

Date: Monday, January 26, 2004 1:04 PM



Hi Larry,



It is against the law for the Dodge dealership to void your warranty because of an aftermarket product. I will send out a document stating all the specifics. Most of the dealerships are going to tell you this because they want you to purchase their paper filter. If our filter causes your engine to fail we will take responsibility for it, but we haven't had anyone come back saying that our filter damaged their engine. Our filter has been heavily tested and is safe for your engine. As long as you keep it cleaned and oiled you shouldn't't have any problems.

If you have any other questions please feel free to call or email at any time.

Thank you,

Melissa Harstad

Customer Service

-- email address removed --

advanced FLOW engineering (aFe)

ph: (909) 279-4050 ext. 201

fax: (909) 279-4056



-----Original Message-----

From: Larry Lotton [mailto:slofl@prodigy.net]

Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:19 AM

To: -- email address removed --

Subject: afe drop in filter/Dodge Cummins 2003





I have a 2003 Dodge with the Cummins HO engine and one of your drop in filters. Frequently on the web site Turbo Diesel Register.com I see warnings that Dodge will void my engine warranty due to aftermarket filters failing to pass some sort of filtration test or the sort when using after market filters.

Will you please answer this question for me and provide any documentation to support your answer.

Thank you for your response.

Larry L. Lotton 6825 Crowfoot Rd. Trail Or. 97541 541-878-1496

 

[gsbrockman]

AFE's Pro-Guard*7 has the 99. 5% efficiency rating of the OE paper filter. I love my intake system ! See pics in gallery if interested.

Greg

 

[Bertram65]

I do not think they can void your warrantee based on the filter being on the engine. But if you have a problem caused by insufficient air filtration I think they could deny you then.

 

[cpizz]

"Void your warranty" is an overworked phrase! What they can do is NOT cover the aftermarket part or any damage caused by the aftermarket part. Your "warranty" will still be in effect. I believe that is fair. Since their warranty is designed to cover their parts and the way the parts are engineered for that vehicle.

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by Bertram65

I do not think they can void your warrantee based on the filter being on the engine. But if you have a problem caused by insufficient air filtration I think they could deny you then.

yea, thats the rub. If you have an aftermarket filter that does not meet the first-pass efficiency rating specified by Dodge (99. 5% I believe) and you have engine failure, DC is likely to blame it on the filter, even if they are wrong about it. Yes, they have to prove that the filter was the cause of the engine failure, but the catch is that their first explanation is likely to be believed unless you have some evidence to the contrary (like oil analysis)



oil analysis is a good way to protect yourself. show a trendline and show when you changed filters. voila, DC engineers outa luck. Now then, if THEY analyze a failed bearing and find (or fabricate evidence of) silica (dirt) they will probably blame it on the filter anyway, but if you've established a good trend, your data will cast doubt on theirs ...

 

[jelag]

I've read reports of Cummins running tests on their Fleet Guard brand as well as some of the other brands of lifetime filters... .



What I've read... leads me to belive that Cummins own brand of Fleet Guard didn't come up to some of their standards and had to change the construction of the filter... .



Their tests showed that a few of the aftermarket filters let in some dirt. . and too large of dirt to meet the standards.....



Its been my choice to stay away from the problems associated with other filters that are not approved by Cummins... I have a distributor who offers me the Fleet Guard filters by the case for an excellent price and I'm never forced into the issue to have to deal with someone else if there is a problem.....



I take me trucks to a lube center and don't let them open the air filter... I personally feel that they alone can get more dirt past the filter by opening and putting back a clean filter... . They also like to pull the air supply from the filter to the turbo to change the oil filter... makes it easier on my 04 Dually... . I don't let them open that either..... every time the system is opened for inspection there's a good chance that dirt gets in... .....



And like a post I earlier about fuel filters we just go till the gauge is mid range... and change it... sometimes thats a low mileage filter. . and other times its 30-40 K..... and when we open the filter housing its with care... ...



Jim

 

[DLeno]

well jim I certainly understand your conservatism. I have to say, however, that for me personally -- I consider that a good after market filter system can be an improvement over stock, and I trust myself more than any dealer in terms of care when working on any regular maintenance like that (air, fuel, oil).



The stock airbox itself is a pretty sorry piece of junk, at least on the 02s. I know of tests that were made (oil analysis) showing silica levels in a high dust envrionment actually dropping when swithing to an after market AFE filter in a scotty II -- and the AFE element actually did not meet the 99. 5% efficiency standard. part of the problem was the air box itself -- its geometries just seem to invite sealing issues with age and extreems in temperature.



But before ProGaurd-7, guys would put K&N filters and of course a host of BHAF style AFEs and K&Ns and whatever, that did not meat the 99. 5% rule. Trucks went 100s of 1000s of miles on those filters. DC started paying attention I think for a variety of reasons, and then these filters got a lot of visibility and attention for being under the declared filtration spec. In a real sense, these after market solutions protected the engine better than stock, and still provided higher flow rates. In some sense, I believe DC was looking for a scapegoat and to protect their consumables sales.



But I tend to be conservative and would be heasitant to put on any after market part that did not meet the DC/Cummins spec. But now the after market air filter guys have no worries, and DC has nothing to whine about. Pro-guard-7 is here, and it flows better and meets the spec, so the bombers can have their cake and eat it too. And a little common sense and care will go along ways when you work on these things. swapping out the stock airbox with an aftermarket box is near trivial.



But your'e right to be conservative about working with and around vital fluid passage ways. For example, nobody changes oil on my truck except for me. I always remove the plastic oil filter wrapper with the threaded hole on the new filter facing down, so that gravity is in my favor and I avoid getting any debris inside the oil filter. I always clean off the oil jug spout after removing the plastic seal -- dont' want no stinkin particles entering the filter when you pre-fill it prior to install. And I alwasys pre-fill the filter with fresh oil so there is instant lubrication at first startup.

And I never would change the airbox without cleaning it first.



kind of like putting on a BD or pac exhaust brake instead of the Jacobs. only the latter is approved by Cummins, but the BD has better braking power at low RPMs. So If I put on a BD or Pac brake I have a solution that is not Cummins approved but perfectly safe and sane.

 

[DCaswell]

The factory air intake system really is a piece of s**t, especially if you drive on dusty roads. My filter minder was sucked right down after 15,000km so I changed the element, now at 38,000 it is sucking down again & we have little dust now due to snow cover. IMO it is just plain stupid to draw air from the fender well unless you are always on clean pavement. My AFE PG7 will be here Monday. Never paying $40+ for a Mopar filter again

 

[jungledave]

It is kinda of rediculious that Dodge put such a tiny filter in there in the first place. I haven't purchased an aftermarket filter for my 04 yet. I will say that I was worried about having to use grease on the filter to air box mating surface with a K&N on my 02. The filter didn't have the soft spongy filter to box seal that the OE filter has. I was only really worried about dirt getting around the filter, not through it. Has anybody bought an 04 filter with a better soft seal on it or know of who makes one? Does the new AFE or K&N come with a better seal surface than the 02 filter.

 

[EMD-Run8]

One of the guys I talked to at DPP said something about planning to use a UNI filter on his truck which I believe is oiled foam w/pre-filter. Doesn't Amsoil make one kinda like that?

 

[RGarza]

stock air filter for brand new 03 cummins

I'm not sure but I could swear that the writings on the side of the stock air filter that I took out of my truck the other day said 98% efficiency rating. I could be wrong and I will check again. I put in a AFE cold air intake but did not put on a pro guard 7. I did not know about them and the place I bought it from did not mention it to me at the time. Should I be worried about using the regular AFE filter, should I replace it with the pro guard 7? I just replaced the origional box and filter about 100 miles ago.