Air Ride Suspension. Anyone running one?

[Gonzo 1066]

I am having some issued with the suspension on my 3500 bottoming out on rough ROUGH roads at speed. I installed PacBrake bags and now it bottoms out on the air bag mounts. I talked to Kelderman and have information coming from Talon industries. Anyone running a REAL air ride in their Dodge? Hows it working. ??

4-Link Rear 4WD (remove leaf springs) - 2003 - 2009 - Dodge - Truck - Air Ride Suspension Systems - Kelderman Manufacturing or
Air Ride Suspension Kits from Talon - Products

 

[JHumphries]

I don't have one, yet, but between it's between Talon and this one:
4LK 2003-2010 DODGE R2500,R3500 2WD/4WD SINGLE & DUALLY, & 1500 Mega Cab New Body 100% Bolt-On Frame 4Link Note: Exhaust may have to be re-routed on some trucksShip Raw unless upgraded to Powdercoat

 

[AEdelheit]

sounds like your problem is shocks and improper air bag mounting. the bump stops should be the what the axle bottoms out on, not the bags, can you move the to and bottom further apart? Also sounds like you need shocks with alot more compression dampening, may want to give, Lorenz/Carli/Thuren a call, could save you a lot of money.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

The truck has only about 3 inches of rear suspension travel. I have new Rancho 9000 shocks on it. I cannot air the bags up past 55psi or the truck is not level and the trailer sits nose high. The bag mounts are in place of the bump stops and they are bottoming out. .

 

[AEdelheit]

The truck has only about 3 inches of rear suspension travel. I have new Rancho 9000 shocks on it. I cannot air the bags up past 55psi or the truck is not level and the trailer sits nose high. The bag mounts are in place of the bump stops and they are bottoming out. .

Somthing doesnt sound right to me if the bags if there bottoming with air in them but im sure you checked for leaks and all that. IMO the Ranchos are garbage, Bilstiens are good or if you tow heavy a cutom valved 2. 0 will make a world of differnce on controlling movment.

 

[mpaulson]

Sounds like you need new shocks and to air the bags up more and adjust the hitch to get the trailer level. I regularly run mine at 90 psi when ever I have a good load on.

Is your truck a 2 wheel drive? Could it be possible if it is, that you have a 4 wheel drive version of air bags installed that the brackets may have more height built into them which would cause it to bottom out to easily on a 2 wheel drive with the less clearance between the frame and axle?

 

[Gonzo 1066]

It is a 4 wheel drive truck, I already lifted the trailer to get it level behind the truck, IMHO the Rancho's seem to be dampning the shock fine. There is NO jounce after the initial hit of the bump. Just that the bag mount bottoms out. IF I was able to install the Pac bags with more travel they might work with the load. I am carrying 3000# pin weight and have no way to alter that. I could lift the trailer more so I could pump up the bags more. My feeling is that the bags I have are too small and have to be pumped up too high to offer a good ride. This is why I want to install a REAL full large bag air suspension. This is NOT my first time to the Rodeo, I have towed with 3500 trucks for the last 25 years. But this is the first time driving in California (on terrible s**ty roads) with a LQ GN trailer.


My initial question IS STILL is anyone using a real air suspension. and How is it working??

 

[tempforce]

i have a Kelderman system that retains the leaf springs.

the air ride system attaches to the rear leaf spring eye.

it has some side to side movement. maybe less than . 5 of a inch... the movement is from the rubber used in the leaf suspension eyes and some movement of other linkage.

if i was to do a rear air ride again,

i would get a non-parrallel link system using larger bags and replacing the entire leaf spring suspension. allowing more travel and making hooking up trailers easier by dropping the rear of the truck.

other than the above, i am very happy with the ride.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

i have a Kelderman system that retains the leaf springs.

the air ride system attaches to the rear leaf spring eye.

it has some side to side movement. maybe less than . 5 of a inch... the movement is from the rubber used in the leaf suspension eyes and some movement of other linkage.

if i was to do a rear air ride again,

i would get a non-parrallel link system using larger bags and replacing the entire leaf spring suspension. allowing more travel and making hooking up trailers easier by dropping the rear of the truck.

other than the above, i am very happy with the ride.

That is the system I am looking at, The 4 link seems to offer the best system. There are a couple of others that have different types of linkage. .

 

[JHumphries]

... if i was to do a rear air ride again,
i would get a non-parrallel link system using larger bags and replacing the entire leaf spring suspension. allowing more travel and making hooking up trailers easier by dropping the rear of the truck.
other than the above, i am very happy with the ride.

Why non-parallel?

 

[tempforce]

no panhard bar required with non-parrallel four link systems.

if you used two or four of the bars mounted to the frame near the driveline and the other end near the wheels. it forms a 'v' which prevents side to side movement. of the rear end. which a true parrallel four link you have the mounting points on the frame and axle in line with the frame. requiring a method to prevent side to side movement, thus a panhard bar or a watts link.

Suspension Design: Types of Suspensions 2 - Automotive Articles .com Magazine

for some details on the differences.

i like the four bar with a watts link or the non-parrellel four link system for street.

cc

 

[JHumphries]

Sorry for the late response. I disappear from the face of the Earth for a couple of months every so often.
I agree about the triangulated not requiring the pan-hard, but is that your only reason? I know the systems behave differently.
Triangulated 4-links have better articulation if I recall, but, how much articulation does a tow rig need?

 

[DShore]

I have air ride on all 4 corners. On the rear I use Air Ride Technologies airbar system, It is a 4 bar unequal length with a panhard bar airbag set behind the rear axle with 9” diameter airbag. The original bags were 7½” diameter, and I found from experience that larger diameter air bags ride better and handle weight more efficiently.

Both rear airbags do not carry the same pressure because unequal loading from side to side from cargo and towed weight. One side may require 60 psi; the other side 80 psi. To keep the truck level from side to side, find out where your truck's ride height works empty, then adjust the trailer so it is level, not the truck.

My ride height is controlled by an ACCUAIRE computer-controlled system with ¾ hp compressor and a 3 gal air tank + a backup system with the same components in case of failure; and, to pump up tires when required.

The shocks are Rancho 9000 adjusted to 6 on rear, max on front because of the weight of the Cummins engine. I have replaced one rear shock under warranty in 2½ years.

Front Air Ride Technologies air ride system was not satisfactory for use with a Cummins; had to use at least 125 psi air pressure and the ride was not improved over stock with as-shipped 7½” air bags.

I built my own setup using 9” diameter bags and redesigned the shock mount using the original upper and lower “A” arms. The ride is much improved both empty and loaded; towing a 30' enclosed car hauler weighing in at 10,000# to 12,000# range.

I have run this exact setup for 2½ years and 25,000 miles on my 98. 5 3500 Quad Cab Dually 2WD.

 

[tempforce]

not using a watts link or pan-hard bar, removes additional joints and wear points. so less additional movement from the rubber isolators and fewer parts to maintain.

i know that hyme (sp) joints are available that removes the movement the rubber isolators allow. but i don't like the vibration transmitted to the chassis.

i even use rubber pads if i use coil springs.

remember our roads aren't as smooth as they used to be. i don't for see that changing during my lifetime. as quality has gone to cheap construction.

i like the idea used in western Europe. roads are contracted out. they must remain in smooth and trouble free, even in areas where salt is used for a minimum number of years stated in the bid/contract. if the road fails to last or comply to the required standards. the company has to redo the road at their expense. can you imagine a company having to guaranty a road staying pothole free and smooth for say 20 years. (currently in Europe it's 10 years)... the materials used would be the best they could find. composites would be developed to make the roads last longer. i know in az they are using recycled tires in the tar. making the roads quieter and smoother...

back to the 4 link, i'm in the process of picking a rear air ride system for both of my trucks. the 08 dodge 3500 and the 83 diesel ranger.

 

[pwerwagn]

"Non-parallel" is also most commonly referred to as a "triangulated 4-link". The lack of a track bar/panhard bar allows the axle to move vertical. When you use a panhard/track bar, it forces the axle to move over as it moves up.

I see pro's and cons to both, but I think I would personally prefer a track bar back there keeping my axle where it should be laterally. Locating an axle by triangulation means that any slack in the heims/bushings will translate to lateral movement of the axle, or the vehicle thats on top.

I have a ranger that I desert race that has a triangulated 4 link in the rear. Any time I get any slop in a heim or a loose fastener, it greatly exaggerates the amount I can move the "bed" side to side in the driveway. I can only imagine that towing would be a bit odd feeling with any sort of worn parts. Maybe not though?

And ya... sounds like you have something wrong with your airbag setup. My 5th has ~2800lbs pin weight, plus I fill my bed with all sorts of cool stuff so Im easily at/over 3Klbs. My 98 had bags... and I had no problems with bottoming out and I don't drive my truck in "normal" places. Most of the pits at desert races are relatively rough, and our local lake requires some pretty good speed to get out of the sand with that much weight. My 04. 5 doesnt have bags yet, but I only have about 2" of bump travel with the rear Kore leaves.

Also... from what I recall back when Rancho 9K's where the-ish (wait... were they ever? haha), the damping is only altered on the rebound circuit. Compression remains the same. Unless it has changed. MX-6's are both reb/comp adjust.

 

[JDKammin]

Has anyone installed the Firestone R4 Tech Airide system on their truck?

 

[zzman]

I have the Firestone Ride Rite bags with the Airlift control.

All work great, but I am 2wd.



You don't suppose you are hitting the overload springs?

They don't give hardly none, like bottoming out.

 

[JMDancoe]

Hey Gonzo..... Get in touch with BScharzli on the forums and he should be able to tell you. He posted a complete rebuild on here during which he installed an air ride system. Should have enough time on it by now to comment either way.
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86/92 Retro Cummins Diesel D-250 Auto 254,000 young

 

[Gonzo 1066]

Hey Gonzo..... Get in touch with BScharzli on the forums and he should be able to tell you. He posted a complete rebuild on here during which he installed an air ride system. Should have enough time on it by now to comment either way.

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86/92 Retro Cummins Diesel D-250 Auto 254,000 young

Thanks for the heads up, I think that the Kelderman has won out for me. Looks like a stout well designed system. In the next month or two I should have it bought and installed.

 

[EDankievitch]

Sounds like your overload helper springs are hitting their chasse brackets. I had installed a set on my 89, they would bang like you were hitting steel on steel I doubt your bumpstops are hitting unless your really overloaded.