airbox mods

[Dreher]

Originally posted by David_VT:
Which scanner do you use. Maybe its time to spend a little cash on tools...

I use an AutoXray EZ-Link. When I first bought mine, I could only get and reset DTC's. I then downloaded an upgrade and can now access engine RPM, vehicle speed, intake air temp, and
throttle position. There are more parameters that are not accessable. AutoXray is currently working on a Chrysler Enhanced OBD-II upgrade that may unlock more info. This only applies to a 96 12V. I have not tried it on a later 12V or 24V. Since OBD-II was designed for computer controlled engines, there may be more info available in a 24V application. If there are any members in the Seattle area that want to give it a shot , let me know.

I paid less than 400. 00 for the unit from a Kragen store, but that was for a kit that would scan all vehicles from around '82 - up. OBD-II only kits (96 - up) are cheaper.
http://www.autoxray.com for more info.

Bob

 

[Chad Sheets]

Compressed air? If 58 psi on the boost gage is making the air hot from compression, then why doesn't an air compressors air start steaming when I have 200 psi crammed into it? Compressed air gets hot alight, but no HX40/35 is going to compress it so much to make it get hot.

The cooler you get the air, the smaller the oxygen molecules get, this way you can cram more of them into a given space when they are cold. There is a limmit as to how far you can take this however. The temperature of the air is what ignites the diesel fuel through compression. Diesel fuel ignites at aprox 450 degrees. As the fuel burns it gives of heat, a. k. a. energy. If you start putting colder air into this formula you start decreasing the amount of heat energy produced.

What is the formula you ask? For every drop in outside air temps by 20 degrees, you drop the temperature of the air in the combustion chamber AT THE END OF THE COMPRESSION STROKE by 60 degrees. What's this mean? Ignition lag, loss of power, dilution of engine oil, carbon and sludge formation, etc. , etc. Things most of us dont want happening inside our compression/ignition style diesel engines.


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Always ready to help!
2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, Hot Power Edge, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple Black, 340 car w/air. Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, shaker hood, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
NRA Life Member. http://www.geocities.com/chadsheets

 

[jkern]

chad,

the oxygen molecules don't get smaller, according to chemistry they just get closer together. which is why there are more of them in a given volume of air. this is why you want cooler intake air because there are more oxygen molecules per volume of air... and we all know more oxygen supports combustion better, there for more complete burning of the fuel... therefore more POWER!!!! (thats what we all want, right??)

i really guess i open up a interesting topic #ad
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Jeremy Kern
1999 2500HD 4x4 QC,SB, ISB, 5spd, 3. 54LSD, 33x12. 50 cooper STT's Denver off-road bumper with Ramsey RE12000, PIAA series 520, Rancho RS9000's, heavy ft. springs, and a bunch of other little things!

 

[Chad Sheets]

Take an engine and force it to breath frigid air. Record the numbers on a dyno. Now take that engine and give it warm 80 degree air. The dyno numbers for the warm air engine will show more power at CSFC (calculated specific fuel consumption). The cold air engine will produce less power and torque. I have access to an engine dyno that runs test like these all day long.

I know its hard to buy into something without seeing it first hand. My information is not based on some classroom textbook theory. Its based on real world, hands on results, not seat of the pants "I think it runs better this way" conclusions. If you can find a facility with a dyno capable of creating controlled environments, and computer programs that calculate CSFC, then give it a try. You will see that what I am saying is correct. Other than that, there is no way to "show" you. Either you believe it, or dont believe it. I've seen it, and I have no choice but to believe the facts.

 

[jaybo]

Dear Chad:
I turned the varnish brown on my HX35 housing by running 30 pounds of boost for 3 hours on a trip from Vegas to May Madness. The EGT's never exceeded 1300. The exit elbow was even browner. Varnish burns at 350 degrees. HX35's do indeed make enough heat to notice.

 

[Bad340fish]

There is a good reason your air compresor doesn't start steaming. When you release compressed air it cools off. Let your compressor kick on for awhile and put your hand on the compressor. . Hurt didn't it?? #ad
But when you use your tools the air coming out of them is cold. Make sense?? 58 PSI will make something warm, My old conquest i ran 16psi of boost and it melted some zip ties that were on the pre intercooler pipe.
Another odd way to see how good that massive Intercooler works is to unhook your boost guage and feel the air that comes out. My buddies 12v runs at least 50psi(35psi guage buried tot he B on boostlol) And the air that comes from the intake to the guage is cool, no warmer than the outside air. Well i guess thats along enough post. #ad
My . 02

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Clark
1999 2500 QC SB 5spd all stock for now
1968 Barracuda Formula S Viper Blue 11. 98@112

 

[DieselPuff]

I would suggest to put a temp gauge in the inlet casting. Then you will know how "frigid" the air really is. If the inlet temp is 60*F and the compressor is producing 6 psi boost, I believe that the aftercooled air is warmer than 60*F. However, opinions are cheap without facts. That's why I suggested for those interested to place a temp probe in the inlet casting.

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2000 Ram 2500 SLT, 2wd Regcab, Driftwood/Agate, 6spd, ETC Diesel. Rickson 19. 5s, Simulators, Michelin 225/70R19. 5 tires, Reunel double break rear bumper, van Aaken CPC, TST Competition PowerMax, RV injectors, HX40-16cm2, 5" exhaust

 

[Chad Sheets]

It'll make it warm but it aint gonna burn no diesel fuel (compressed air from a turbo only). How/why did you have varnish on the inside of the compressor housing? Remember the turbo takes exhaust right out of the cylinder. So why would your turbo not reach 350 degrees? I dont think I understand the varnish on the turbo post #ad

 

[RAPID RICK]

What happened to "AIR BOX MODS"?

 

[illflem]

Chad says we don't need them,I think he's wrong. This tread has given me the impetus to finish installing my intake temp sender,just wish it wasn't so darn cold...

 

[sport bike]

Compressing air definitly creates heat. If you noticed all the condensation in your air compressor,that from hot air cooling rapidly.

Lets take the air temp numbers alittle farther. If inlet air is 70,50psi air would be 280,and after the intercooler the temp would be 110.

 

[jaybo]

Chad:
The varnish is on the OUTSIDE of the compressor housing and was provided free of charge by Dodge. You'll find similar varnish on the outlet elbow and on the aluminum casting above the air heaters on the intake manifold. While clearly the whole turbo is heated by the exhaust gas passing through the exhaust housing, it should also be clear that the oil used to float the turbo bearings would burn up if it were over 350 degrees. Hence the bearing casting can never exceed 350 or the turbo would sieze. The airflow through the compressor side serves to cool the turbo. The brown varnish I observed on the exterior of the compressor casting were in areas of high pressure on the circumference and near the outlet. The portions near the intake never discolor. I'm sure the blast of intake air on the compressor impeller also serves to cool the turbo via the thermal conduction through the shaft, even though the compressor vanes near the exit are no doubt much hotter. Have you ever filled a scuba tank to 3000 psi? They submerge them in water while filling for a reason. Please consult any high school physics text on the subject of Charles' Law should you have any lingering doubts that compressing gases in a constant volume produces heat.

 

[Neal Cassady]

illflem,

Did you ever get the digital camera thing worked out. I would love to see some pictures before I drill more holes in my truck.

Thanks,
Dave D

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2001. 5 QC LB 4x4 Auto 3. 54 Everything but Leather Bright Silver Metalic ARE K Series Diprocal EGT, Boost and transmission Temp in an Autometer Dash Pod

 

[illflem]

Dave,I took pictures but couldn't get a good one without taking the hood off or taking the picture from 12" away,which didn't come out good. Sorry

 

[drawson]

I have used my lazer temp on mine right after a hard pull and the intake side of the turbo has been 200-250 and cooling down. As soon as Bill get his temp sender's in we'll know.

Here something that's funny on the older semi's they always had there A/F on the outside of the hood getting cool air, the new one still have duxts to get the air but the filter are under the hood. ANd also if cold air didn't help a Diesel then NOS would give any HP.

I'm a cool air man and LUV my Psychotty System and have taken it one step further by putting insulation tape on the housing and wrapping the intake hose after the intercooler.

 

[Chad Sheets]

Jaybo, I'm no physics man. I love it when you guys state the theories though, however I understand what is going on, just dont know the "law" names. I'll have to get me a physics book and study up. Now I understand what you guys were saying about the varnish. I was lost on the first post. I cant throw any opinions or thoughts out about that since I haven't seen it to figure out what is going on. I can throw these numbers out, because they are what we saw on the last controlled cold air test we did... ... .....

Air under the hood is going to be warmer than air from any other place. In
the winter time our engine compartments can be as much as 50 degrees hotter, if not more
than the outside air. That means if the combustion temp was at 1090 degrees
with under the hood air on a 15 degree day (not uncommon here in the
winter), that it would drop to 940 degrees from the colder air intake from
outside. I'll take the 1090 deg temp any day over the 940 deg temp.

Now, how can you logically debate the fact that cold intake air creates less heat in the combustion chamber? Throw in all the "if, and, or buts" you want, but once you cut the fat away, you're going to be left with the FACT that cold air lowers the temperature in the combustion chamber.

I dont know what the physics law is called, or if there is one for this, but an engine that ignites from the heat of compression and creates power by that heat isn't going to create even more power by reducing the combustion temps. The above numbers regarding the combustion temps are not fictional, they are real.


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Always ready to help!
2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, Hot Power Edge, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple Black, 340 car w/air. Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, shaker hood, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
NRA Life Member. http://www.geocities.com/chadsheets

 

[drawson]

Chad, Why not take the intercooler out then, that will bring up the cylinder temp. I know that with colder air to begin with that my lowly 12 valve makes more boost and even in 20 deg weather if I stay in the go peddle too long I will go over 1300 deg EGT. With out my Psychotty system I wouldn't be able to stay in it as long. I'll keep mine cool.

 

[illflem]

Well Chad is right,somewhat. Finally finished installing my intake temp sensor today. I'm using an Intellitronix digital AT temp gauge with a switch to flip between AT temp and a sender mounted in the middle of the intake manifold. Outside temp today was +10°F,the gauge read 72° before I started it due to being parked half way in my heated shop with the block heater plugged in. When I pulled out it dropped instantly to 38°,that was the coldest it ever read. After the engine warmed up the highest temp I could get out of it was 54° while driving,I was only able to get my EGTs up to 500°due to icy roads,as the boost increased the temp actually went down to 40°- 45°,after running it and coming down to an idle the temp rose to 86°the highest I saw. Next I removed the hose I had installed between the airbox and vent intake cowl,duct taped the hole on the airbox shut,went on the same run again and the temps were almost exactly the same drawing air in from the fender. The somewhat Psycotty made no difference.

I agree with Chad that the intake temp should be 60°-90°. I didn't think it was possible for it to go that low though from previously taking temps at an idle on a warmer day. It looks like the intake temp is only 30°-50° above air temp. Now I see that the temp increases at idle. I think the low temps I'm seeing are related to the very efficient intercooler that our trucks have. I only had my Lund winter cover on,I'm thinking it's not enough,the intercooler is doing it's job too good just as the radiator does on these below freezing days. Remember the intercooler doesn't/can't have a thermostat,airflow is the only thing that controls the amount of charge air cooling.

This gauge is going to make easy to find out what mods it takes to keep the intake temp in the ideal range. Next step will be cardboard between the intercooler and radiator,after that will be removing the fan. When summer comes around a whole new set of mods will also come around.

 

[sport bike]

Where talking about to diferent thangs. If the combustion temp gets to low it would hurt power. But the problem is that my combustion temp get to high and could melt down the engine. So the cooler air helps keep temps under control. But the colder the intake charge the denser the charge and the more hp you make. As long as you have enough combustion temp to burn it completely. Usually thats not a problem. Thats why NOS works so well on this engines. You just spray it in the intake track to cool the air charge going in to the cylinders. It,s like having the worlds most efficient intercooler hooked up to your motor. For those of you not familiar with NOS. It,s basically a super cold gas thats non flammable. But as soon as you add a catalyst(fuel)it becomes very explosive. Hope this info helps.

 

[Rambling]

Does compressing a more dense gas (cold air) into the same volume create more heat in the gas then trying to compress a less dense gas (hot air - HEY! No snide remarks on the hot air #ad
)into the same volume? Doesn't more "O" mean a more complete (hotter) burn? or is there some other reason we've got turbos? #ad


Uh, another thought (gosh, what a surprise #ad
). Isn't the purpose of feeding warm air to increase efficiency while feeding cooler air is to increase output? #ad
If they went hand-in-hand, then the guys with the biggest turbos pushing all that cooler air would get the best fuel mileage.

[This message has been edited by Rattlin (edited 12-15-2000). ]