2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Alignment Specs in the TDR

[hammersley]

In one of the most recent TDR's there was an alignment spec for the 2nd gen trucks - does anybody have that spec and or a copy of the article - a reference with a date would be helpful..... my young lab pup has enjoyed a couple of these magazines.....

 

[Joe G.]

I don't know about recent. This was posted on the forum some time ago:



Alignment programs (and service manuals I believe), give a wide acceptable range for front caster on the 4x4 Rams. I believe the range is 2 degrees to 5 degrees (if that's not correct, it's pretty close). The problem occurs when the alignment tech (independent or dealer) tells you that the measurements “checked out fine”, just because they were in this broad range of acceptance.



Caster readings that fall on either end of the scale are subject to caster shimmy, even though they are “acceptable”. I had to align some 30 trucks and attend a 9 hour “Dodge Ram Chassis Dynamics Diagnostics” training session (fancy name, ehh?), before finding out that 3 degrees to 4 degrees is the optimal caster setting for 4x4 Rams that eliminates caster shimmy.



Below I will post what specifications I set Ram trucks to. First I want to give a little more info on correct Ram alignments so you can see if you had a job well done.



The eccentrics on the lower control arms ARE NOT for individual wheel caster adjustments (even though our alignment machine says they are). The eccentric sleeves in the upper ball joints are for adjusting individual camber and total cross caster (difference in caster between two front wheels). This is why replacement eccentrics are positionable in eight different ways.



Once camber and cross caster are attained with the eccentrics, the lower control arm eccentrics are then used to swing the caster readings into specifications. The two eccentrics must be swung in the SAME direction in EQUAL amounts. If they are not, it will create a setback condition (one front wheel further forward than the other).



FYI - Comparing between the two front wheels, caster will cause a pull to the smaller value and camber will cause a pull to the larger value. A truck set up with caster pulling in one direction and camber pulling in the other direction, can lead to a wandering truck; even though it is “in specifications”!!!!!!



If the eccentrics on the lower control arms of your truck are not pointing the same direction, the alignment was done incorrectly and the axle was “twisted” or “forced” into position to attain the acceptable values (seen them from the factory this way, go figure).



A correct alignment will set the truck up with a slight negative cross caster (truck has slight pull to left) to compensate for right hand road crown. Camber will be equal side to side slightly on the negative side. This will help maintain acceptable camber when hauling heavy loads, as the truck tends to lift in the front when towing. Camber will then fall slightly positive when towing.



Just because the alignment shop says “it's in specifications”, that does not mean it is set up for proper performance and handling!!!!!!!!!



Specifications (my personal settings for every Ram I align): all specs below are in degrees.





Left Wheel Right Wheel

-------------- ----------------

Caster 3. 2 3. 5

Cross Caster -. 3



Camber -. 10 -. 10

Cross Camber 0. 0



Toe - standard specs, (maybe a little out if you tow a lot, they will pull in as the front end lifts up).



Brent

ASE Certified

Gold Certified Chrysler tech

 

[hammersley]

Thanks a million.....

I assume this will mean a lot more to an alignment tech than me... ... AND - I just added soem HD front springs to lift my front end due to my buckstop... ... . will that change any of these specs?????



Also - since mine is a 4WD - does that make a difference???????

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

HEY JOE - any time I'm near Eureka, I'd sure like YOU to do an alignment on my truck - it sounds like you really know yer stuff! Oo.

 

[Joe G.]

Those specs are for a 4X4. See the comments about control arms and twisting an axle. No axle on a 4X2. I don't think the springs have any affect on alignment on our trucks. Best to ask a front end guy to make sure.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Best to ask a front end guy to make sure

The REAL trick is finding a front end guy who really knows and understands the mechanics of alignment, rather than just going on numbers printed in a book...

 

[Joe G.]

The REAL trick is finding a front end guy who really knows and understands the mechanics of alignment, rather than just going on numbers printed in a book...

Bingo! I had a slight pulling problem that was getting worse. I took it to a front end shop with a good reputation. Several tries later I still had the problem. It turned out to be a rear tire push problem. There was a little bit of belt separation on the tire. It finally separated enough that it caused a vibration. I put some new Michelins on it. Most of the problem went away, but I still had it. After reading the above article I inspected the front end. The control arm eccentrics were set differently so I adjusted them to match using the side that had the most caster as a guide. Truck runs straight down the road now. Steers easy. It tends to develope a very slight pull on old tires. That goes away with new tires. 243K miles on it. The only front end part replaced is an axle U-joint.

 

[dtygart]

Hey Joe,

Do you still do alignment at your house? Do you have all the tools? Sure sounds like it is worth the trip over there. If it would work out with you, I will PM or email the bad history for my truck front end then you can tell me if you want to work on mine. Remember, I still owe you and your wife dinner for all the help you have given me on TDR Forum!



david

 

[Joe G.]

No, I don't do alignment. In this case the front end guy was fighting a bad tire and didn't realize it. Once that was figured out the truck drove pretty good except for the pull. It was not bad, just a constant aggravation. After I read the above description I noticed that the track bars were not set the same. I marked them both so if I messed it up I could retreat. Then I figured out which one had to most caster and turned the other to match it. That worked. If it had not worked I was going to go back to the front end guy with the article and have a long talk with him in hopes I could get the alignment set right.

 

[dtygart]

OK, thanks, Joe.



Does anyone know of the best place to get my 96 3500 4WD aligned correctly? Anywhere in Northern California.



thanks in advance,



david

 

[Joe G.]

If you have any slopply joints or anything like that you will have to replace them or have someone else do that before an alignment will do you any good. Same thing with steering and shocks. Bad worn tires can have you all over the place too. If you have all the hardware in good shape then shop around until you can find someone who will set the alignment like the article says and you should be ok. My guy is pretty good. I think the bad tire just faked him out. You should probably be able to find someone in Paridise or Chico who can do a good job. If any farther away it would be a pain in the butt to take it back if there is a problem. Maybe Redbluff or Oroville, but I don't think I would go any farther away. This is not rocket science.

 

[dtygart]

Well, here's what up on this side of the mountain. I took my old Ford to several places here, Paradise, Chico, Redding, finally found a local shop who put me right and at a decent price. Been buying tires, batteries, lift kit, shocks, brakes from Les Schwab since they opened here on the hill so I gave them three chances to get the alignment right. They said they couldn't get it to Dodge specs but close enough (???) this was even before I put the mild lift kit on. Still had lots of wear, wandering and a steady pull to the right that made long trips tiring. Went back to my local alignment-brake shop, spent $1000 on front end parts and front brakes, still wasn't right. He tried again by making the settings past the specs. Still pulled to the right. A year later, front pads and rotors worn, excessive tire wear, and now I have the dreaded death wobble! I have read some of the posts about after-market track bars, but I guess I will have to replace tie rod ends again, track bar, and maybe ball joints. Hoping to save enough money to get over to Ponci's dyno days, but don't know if I will after a major front end rebuild!



thanks,



david

 

[Joe G.]

I have never had those problems. The only thing has been a pull to the right that was aggravating, but not too bad. The guy I was taking it to got rid of most of that, but the bad tire had him fooled. I would say put new tires on it and take it to him with the above article and see what happens if you lived a little closer. If it's not right it's about 200 miles of crooked road to come back.



If there is no slop in the front end parts then I don't think you need a rebuild. A poor alignment will make you think the whole thing is junk.

 

[hammersley]

"Adjustable" ball joint????????

MY aligbnebt shop - Les Schwab - says that my one side needs this... ...comments?????? I mean are these things any good?????



I think they're something like these... .....



http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/ARadjustableBallJoints/adjustableballjoints.htm

 

[dtygart]

Oh, WOW... that looks intimidating! Excellent article--much better than the shop manual. Part of me says buy/rent the tool and do it in order to save $$, and one part of me says do it in order to have the pleasure (?) of working on my truck... but another part says, well what if I get part of it done and the truck is up on stands, and I can't get all of the parts out or in then I won't be able to take it to the local shop to get it done right!



Oh, well, all your thoughts are solicited, and appreciated in advance.



thanks,



david

 

[JKaptchinskie]

What front end component will cause the toe to change if bad? I had my truck aligned two months ago, and since I purchased a lifetime alignment, I took it back today just for grins, and the toe had changed. Is this caused by the ball joints, control arm, ect.

 

[Dave M]

I had a horrible time with alignment and new tires getting worn in 6 weeks on the right front. Here is my thread:



http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144154



I found a great alignment shop here in Fresno. Read my thread if your interested. The shop is Louis Frame, Wheel and Brake- phone 559 233-8411 1574 north effie, Fresno ca 93703.



Talk to Mike. I believe he is the owner. Everyone was coming to him while I was there. They know what they are doing and guarentee what they do. I won't have anyone else touch my truck.





Dave

 

[JessePayne]

I have seen this post many times and wonder how your adjust camber on the 2nd gen 4x4. The stock upper ball joints do not have an adjustment. If this guy is being trained by dodge, are they assuming that everyone has put adjustable ball joints on? The only adjustments I can see are the toe on the tie rod and the caster on the lower control arm. Please someone clue me in.

 

[Dave M]

I have seen this post many times and wonder how your adjust camber on the 2nd gen 4x4. The stock upper ball joints do not have an adjustment. If this guy is being trained by dodge, are they assuming that everyone has put adjustable ball joints on? The only adjustments I can see are the toe on the tie rod and the caster on the lower control arm. Please someone clue me in.

Not sure who you are addressing here, but the alignment shop removed an offset sleeve on my steering knuckle and replaced it by choosing the proper one to get the camber my truck needed. According to the shop the sleeve also effects caster too. Thats why it takes 1-2 hours to do the alignment this way.



The eccentrics on the lower control arm are for caster but there is not much adjustment range there to work with. The knuckle sleeves are offset so you must purchase the correct offset needed for each alignment. Pull the old sleeve and replace with the new one. Fixed my problem.



Don't know about those adjustable ball joints. Anyone else using them?

 

[JessePayne]

sorry just a little frustrated. I am going to give them a call thanks for the info