Allowable Axle Weights 2004.5 3500 SRW

[CBrittan]

I hate to raise this subject again, but I need to clarify allowable axle weights for my Ram. I have just ordered a new 5er, and suddenly, the issue of GVW and GAWR has come to mind. I have just read lots of posts on this but I am left with a big question.



I see posts which say the GVW of a 2004. 5 CDT 3500 SRW LBx is 9900 lbs.



I just looked at the sticker on my drivers door. My Max axle weight or GVW on my door sticker adds up to 11350 lbs. My stock tire labels indicate max load of 12780 lbs. I know my SRW weighs around 7400. I expect to be able to load my truck with anything (5er hitch and hitch weight or whatever) to a max of 11350 lbs before I overload the GVW, and to 12780 if I was willing to exceed the max GVW.



Am I right? If not, why not?

 

[JRMora]

No, I don't think so. Gross axle weight ratings (GAWR) and Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) are separate. When the designers of the truck developed these ratings it is intended that you cannot overload either rating. GVWR is not the two GAWR's added together.



The GVWR is the maximum the truck should weigh with all options, passengers, goodies, fuel (and in your case hitch and pin weight).



The Front GAWR is the maximum allowable weight on the front axle when fully loaded. The rear GAWR is the maximum allowable weight on the rear axle when fully loaded.



More graphically put, if you load up your truck, hitch up your trailer and drive to the scales, driving the truck onto the scale (with the trailer hitched up), but without putting the trailer tires/axles on the scale will give you your Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW). If you back up the truck so only the front axle is on the scale you'll get the front Gross Axle Weight (GAW). The rear axle weight is the measured GVW minus the measured front GAW. In no cases should any of the published ratings be exceeded.



Ken Lenger (Klenger) has a good tutorial on truck and trailer weights.



I hope this lessened the confusion and didn't make it worse.



Juan

 

[klenger]

Here it is http://www.klenger.net/arctic-fox/weight/index.html

 

[CBrittan]

Thank you both!



Interesting that the manufacturer provides the max axle weights, but not the max GVW on the door sticker.



This could lead an ordinary mind to conclude that the max GVW is simply the max axle weights added together. This is what I assumed. However, it does seem to me that loading and operating within the max axle weights would not overload the truck, although it might exceed it's design spec for braking, acceleration from a stop, climbing hills etc.



I am wishing I had the kept the sales brochure on my RAM cause so far, I have not been able to find the GVR or GCWR for my truck anywhere on the net.



Does anybody know?

 

[CBrittan]

I found just what I need thank you Mr. Klenger. Right there on your website.



Thank you once again!

 

[CBrittan]

Scaled this morning at 7920 lbs.



Didn't realize how much all those accessories weighed.



Guess I will have to let my wife walk!

 

[AlexWV]

Interesting that the manufacturer provides the max axle weights, but not the max GVW on the door sticker.

The GVWR is on the door sticker (top right corner).



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The owners manual has a section on vehicle loading including a discussion on GAWR, GVWR, GCWR and their relationships. The owners manual also refers to the dodge site for a towing guide but the address the manual gives is wrong. It is actually here: http://www-5.dodge.com/vehsuite/towingbasics/d/checklist.jsp



The dodge site also has gvwr, gawr, gcwr info but it seems to be only for model year 2005.

 

[RMachida]

The owners manual also refers to the dodge site for a towing guide but the address the manual gives is wrong. It is actually here: http://www-5.dodge.com/vehsuite/towingbasics/d/checklist.jsp



The dodge site also has gvwr, gawr, gcwr info but it seems to be only for model year 2005.

That site doesn't give information for the 3500 SRW (which is what I needed). A pdf of the Canadian site http://www.daimlerchrysler.ca/EN/DODGE/PDF/ram2500_towing.pdf has it broken down by model, engine, trans, final drive, trim level, etc.

 

[Cryppie]

What I have found interesting is the lack of documentation (label plate or other) regarding GCWR. The door sticker has GVWR and GAWR, and the only difference (at least on DRW) between the 21k and 23k GCWR is rear end ratio. Now the really fun part, try to find somewhere other than on the build sheet or opening up your axle where the ratio is... I haven't found it yet. My '99 had a spec sheet in the glovebox, but my 04. 5 doesn't. To me, it begs the question, "Why is it that 4. 10 trucks can tow 2,000 pounds more than me?" It doesn't have anything to do with stopping ability, load carry capacity, or anything other than being easier on the transmission with taller gears. Thoughts? (Ken L. )

 

[klenger]

Thoughts? (Ken L. )

It's all about drive train loading and acceptable warranty risk on Dodge's part. In my opinion, the GCWR for towing a 5er or gooseneck is totally useless as you will always exceed the GVWR first anyway. Since the GCWR is not published, I don't see any way it could be legally enforced.

 

[RJOL]

One thing I never see talked about, when this subject comes up, is the load rating for the rear tires on a SRW CTD. If you have a 30' plus fifth wheel with slides (especially a front bedroom slide) you may be over the max load for your rear tires. These trucks always weigh more then you think they do, and by the time you load up your gear, and load up the fifth wheel, you may be surprised how much it actually weighs. I know the CTD will haul it, but the last thing I want to experience is a blowout while towing down the freeway at 60 plus mph with a SRW truck. JMHO...

 

[Tim]

SRW trucks are very hard to not bust the GVWR with 5th wheel trailers. With a 3/4 ton its nearly impossible unless it's 28' or less. Going down the road, you'd never know it. Owners of Ram 2500s, F250s, and Silverado/Sierra 2500s overload their GVWR on a pretty regular basis.



I got a 1 ton for this very reason. My truck weighs 7,025 lbs empty, which leaves me a lot of room for pin weight. 1,100 more than a 3/4 ton to be exact.



GCWR is worthless for a SRW truck. There is just no way to tow @ max GCWR without overloading something else first. On a dually it's probably possible... but with a single wheel truck, you're going to be overloaded if you're at max GCWR.

 

[crobertson1]

Now the really fun part, try to find somewhere other than on the build sheet or opening up your axle where the ratio is... I haven't found it yet. My '99 had a spec sheet in the glovebox, but my 04. 5 doesn't. To me, it begs the question, "Why is it that 4. 10 trucks can tow 2,000 pounds more than me?" It doesn't have anything to do with stopping ability, load carry capacity, or anything other than being easier on the transmission with taller gears. Thoughts? (Ken L. )

My '04. 5 has the sticker inside the glove box door with the pertinent info.



Cryppie, you have a sweet truck.

 

[RMachida]

Rear Tires

Is tire load rating one of the reasons folks run 19. 5's? Are they safer when towing?

 

[Dieselnerd]

Here we go with the "DRW is God's greatest gift to mankind" again. My 3500 SRW doesn't even come close to it's max weight when my fifth wheel is hooked up. My fiver is 35 feet long and has a GVW of 13,900. It has a tongue weight of 1800 and unless I add water to the tank (which I normally don't) my truck doesn't even touch the overload springs. As far as blowouts are concerned, two things, 1. It is extremely rare for a load range E tire to actually blow and 2. It's much worse for loss of control to blow a front tire than a rear. I lost the tread on a load range E rear tire (Goodyear of course) a few years back but never lost the air.

 

[juicedcummins]

GCWR is worthless for a SRW truck. There is just no way to tow @ max GCWR without overloading something else first. On a dually it's probably possible... but with a single wheel truck, you're going to be overloaded if you're at max GCWR. [/QUOTE]





Yes you can run @ the max so called Chrysler only GCWR without being overloaded. I do it every time I hook up. When pulling doubles it is very easy no to go over the GVW and sneak up to max GCWR.

 

[RJOL]

Here we go with the "DRW is God's greatest gift to mankind" again. My 3500 SRW doesn't even come close to it's max weight when my fifth wheel is hooked up. My fiver is 35 feet long and has a GVW of 13,900. It has a tongue weight of 1800 and unless I add water to the tank (which I normally don't) my truck doesn't even touch the overload springs. As far as blowouts are concerned, two things, 1. It is extremely rare for a load range E tire to actually blow and 2. It's much worse for loss of control to blow a front tire than a rear. I lost the tread on a load range E rear tire (Goodyear of course) a few years back but never lost the air.

Well Ron... I guess this answers all the questions... By the way... Have you ever actually weighed your setup across a real scale? If so... Post the weights here, by axle and by total, and we can see what your really towing. If you have a 35' fifth wheel that weight in at 13900lbs, you should be carrying around 15-20% of that weight on the king pin. That would put you at anywhere from 2100 to almost 2800 lbs over the rear axle. Now lets put some stuff in the front of your fifth wheel and load up your truck with a few extra goodies like people, junk in the rear seat, stuff in the bed, etc. My tow guide says you can carry a total of 6200lbs on the rear axle with the setup you have in your signature. The best load range "E" tire I've seen allows a load of around 6800lbs. By the way... The compression of your overload springs has nothing to do with the load you can safely carry... Have fun...

 

[CBrittan]

More Thoughts on Weights

Looking at the max weight rating of my stock Michelin tires (from the sidewall stamp), I see each has 3195 lbs load carry capacity. If we were only concerned about load carry capacity of tires, it could not exceed 12,780 lbs in total.



At that load weight, axles would be overloaded. Front axle max is 5200, rear 6200 for 11,400 lbs total.



There is a margin of safety then in the tires, as max weight for axles is 1380 lbs under the tire max.



So one might conclude from this that you could load your Ram to ll,400 lbs without overloading anything assuming the weight was correctly distributed so as not to overload either axle.



Seems to me that Chrysler built in a considerable margin of safety.

 

[Dieselnerd]

RJOL, I always weigh my RV's. That 15-20% of the trailer weight on the pin is an average and differs with various makes depending on where the trailer axles are located. With the loaded trailer on the truck and me in it and a full tank of fuel the truck weighs 9600. Front is 4200 and rear is 5400. I was slightly overweight when I towed the same trailer with my 2500 but not now. BTW I just loved your little dose of sarcasm as though I didn't know what I was doing. Is there anything else you would care to know about my rig? Actual trailer weight? 11,200 on the two axles together. The gross is 13,900 but I don't care to haul water around the country so it's never that heavy.

 

[RJOL]

... I don't care to haul water around the country so it's never that heavy.

Well... That sounds like a good solution...