2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Alternator and battery upgrades

[Bigramguy]

After searching here for alternator upgrades and not finding much,I set out to replace the stock alternator with something more capable,after it went up in smoke after a long night of plowing snow. I haven't had good luck with rebuilders and their upgraded stock alternators,as the small case can't stand the heat and they fail very quickly.



I have replaced the original 136 amp alternator with a Leece-Neville large frame 160 amp alternator. It is brand new,not rebuilt. This thing is huge. It has huge roller bearings and extended brushes for long life. It was a tight fit,and took some small modifications,but it does bolt on,and makes a huge differance in the charging output. It is also a one wire alternator,just hook up the battery cable and go. I now see 75-80 amps at idle and 130 at 1800 RPM. It maxes out at 175 amps at 2200 RPM. Talk about conservative ratings !They also make a 140 amp version,which has a very similar output curve,but is much cheaper and more readily available. It is actually cheaper than a new stock replacement from DC.



You will need some new bolts,some spacers and bushings,a new pulley,a new belt,and a few hours of labour.



As far as the battery,I cut the ends off the stock battery trays and I'm using two Group 31 Interstate commercial batteries. They are used on tractor trailers and have 1190 Cranking amps and 195 min reserve capacity each. A big jump up from the stockers.



I am currently making a bracket and a custom alternator pulley which will add a hydraulic pump,and a clutched air compressor in the future. They will run off the alternator pulley via two v-belts or a small serpentine belt. More info to come as the project comes together.



I will have pics soon,if you want more info,just e-mail me.



I will post a bill of materials and some part numbers here soon.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I've been thinking of relocating one or both of my batteries. . maybe one of those 1190's 'd be as good as our stock twins.



I wanna put cold air go fast s#$% over where the passenger side battery goes.

 

[Bigramguy]

I don't think one of them would do the trick,but there are single batteries available that will. A 4D or 8D series will work as they have CA in the 1400-1800 range. I believe Cummins specs a min 1200 CA battery capacity for starting with the 6BT.



I will be moving my batteries rearward this spring when my dump body goes on.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I've been considering a flatbed myself. I'm thinking of getting a simple flatbed w/headache and gooseneck and adding boxes under it later. No reason I couldn't biuld a HUGE box for monster batteries,

 

[LSMITH]

I have to ask what is drawing so much power that you needed to make these mods? That is some serious power.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

The grid heaters on our trucks are the reason we need dual batteries. The grid heaters draw down the voltage on our trucks while running at idle to under 13v from 14. 4v.



If you did not use the grid heaters you could put in a 1000CCA battery and be good to go.

 

[LarryB]

How do the first gens do it?

 

[Bigramguy]

Yeah the intake air heaters,my electric plow,stereo,electric salter,add'l lights,and winches all take a heavy toll on the batteries and the charging systems.



With the bigger batteries and the bigger alternator,it's one less thing to worry about going wrong.



My lights still dim a bit when the grid heaters are on,but nowhere near as much as before.



Plus the price was right. If you use the 140 amp Leece Neville,it is cheaper than a new stock unit,but it WILL put out 140 amps++ unlike the stock unit.



Availablity was also a factor,as no one around here stocked a factory replacement,but ALL the truck shops had 4-5 Leece Neville's on the shelf and open 24 hrs.

 

[Dennis Garrett]

I've often wondered about relocating batteries, but haven't seen much posted about it. My 2500 has always had a nose heavy feel, and I thought moving both batteries into a good box, and hanging them off the frame behind the passengers side of the cab, it would partially off set the combined weght of the driver, and the 35 gal fuel tank. You could connect the batteries with 12" of cable instead of reaching clear across like they are now. Batteries hardly ever need service anymore, you'd just have to source a good sealing, well made box, & hang it off some brackets. The combined weight of the new battry box, & the exhaust system might balance it out a little side to side, and take un-needed weight off the nose.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Battery relocation comes up every now and then. There is an excellent source for cables, etc. , but I don't have my catalog in front of me. For those running something light like the red tops, weight hanging on the side would not be a big problem. It sure would make for some more room in the engine bay plus transfer much needed weight towards the rear however little.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

That would take over 100lb off the front end. Not that I worry. . I want the space for stuff, all kinds a stuff.

 

[MCummings]

Just hope you don't get a short somewhere :--) Oo. :{



Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[Cooker]

Our plow trucks (Chevy Gassers) with dual batteries and a 135 amp alternator will eat up batteries pretty often. It does depend a little on the driver, but plowing with all the extra lights and load placed on the batteries to run the plow hydralics really is very hard on batteries.



Add this scenario to a diesel engine with grid heaters that are used every cold start and I'd say you have a scenario for some very short lived batteries.



JMHO



I'd like to move the battereis rearward also, but for the same reason as Mark, more room under the hood

 

[Tilesetter Too]

I'd like any information you could provide me. I was thinking of calling Premeir Power and see what they had available. I know they go up to 200 amp outputs but no idea on the price. I run a 1500 watt inverter and a fridge in my trailer that pulls 11 amps/hr and I have 3 8d 450 amp reserve batteries and I cant keep them charged with the stock wimpy alternator. Thats a total of 1350 amp reserve. I've got a leece-neville off an old ambulance that I may be able to adapt with your help. Its an old 140 amp but I just had it rebuilt and know that it works well.

I seem to think I saw somewhere that a dual alternator option was available for the dodge??? Can anyone back that up?? or do I need to cut back on medication... .

Shawn

 

[GSchlegel]

Batteries hardly ever need service anymore, you'd just have to source a good sealing, well made box, & hang it off some brackets.

Dennis,



I believe all wet cell batteries will gas off Hydrogen. I don't know about the gell type batteries. Since hydrogen is quite explosive, I would think the box should be vented.



If the batteries are relocated would the cables be longer and therefore need to be larger gauge?



Just wondern out loud,

Gene

 

[illflem]

Gene, they might need to be larger gauge, but the distance from the starter to the bed area may be shorter than the distance from the pass side battery to the starter. Things very well could even out. I've seen some two battery relocation boxes, nice but over $200.

If I were to do it I'd build my own, after all it's just a box with a few holes for the hold down rods and some drains.

 

[Dave MacArthur]

Dodge doesn't have a dual alternator setup that I know of. Ford does. It seems to me that we have a much better engine than Ford. That's the most important part of a truck. After all the engineering that went into building a truck with a great diesel engine, why not go the extra step and offer setups so that commercial customers (welders, tow trucks, etc. ) could build a truck that would work for them? As for the side to side weight issue mentioned, our front springs are sized stronger on the drivers side to make up for the driver, fuel tank, etc.



Dave.

 

[me4osu]

Originally posted by Tilesetter Too

I'd like any information you could provide me. I was thinking of calling Premeir Power and see what they had available. I know they go up to 200 amp outputs but no idea on the price. I run a 1500 watt inverter and a fridge in my trailer that pulls 11 amps/hr and I have 3 8d 450 amp reserve batteries and I cant keep them charged with the stock wimpy alternator. Thats a total of 1350 amp reserve. I've got a leece-neville off an old ambulance that I may be able to adapt with your help. Its an old 140 amp but I just had it rebuilt and know that it works well.

I seem to think I saw somewhere that a dual alternator option was available for the dodge??? Can anyone back that up?? or do I need to cut back on medication... .

Shawn

I heard of a welder who is running a 250A generator using a PTO on a 3500. I don't know any of the details or if it is even true, but you might want to check in to it. Any members who know about this could speak up also.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

You could build a generator to run off the PTO pretty easy. Or even one or a pair of alternators running off it dedicated to your camper.



If you have a HD Tcase (4x4) and a 6 spd you have up to 3 PTO locations available. You could run many alternators off of one output though. It would be a poor man's HO generator. the expensive part is the PTO attachment itself.

 

[Bigramguy]

I looked into the PTO route,for an additional alternator,hydraulic pump and air compressor,but didn't want to spend the big dollars on the PTO adapter. The other thing is you can only use the PTO when the truck is in neutral or moving,and getting the correct PTO speed can be difficult.



I also looked into custom wound alternators,high output specialty alternators (for stereo systems),and the premier power unit. All were very pricey,and didn't have the reliabilty or durabilty I was looking for. Most of the custom stuff I have seen,is for intermittant high amperage use only. Continous use at rated output will cook the unit in no time. Another drawback is most aftermarket stuff used external regulators,with finicky adjusments,and extra wiring,which again I didn't want. All the units I looked at also needed to be spun at very high RPM's to put out near their rated amperage,which is hard to do on a diesel.



I spoke to several truck specialists and outfitters they all recommended Leece-Neville. Thier alternators are based on proven designs that were perfected and built for years of long life and to stand up to the vibration of a diesel motor,especially the Detroit 60 series. I figured if they last 10 years on a big rig,they should last even longer on my little cummins. They are also available just about anywhere,most truck shops had at least 10 on the shelf,and are open 24 Hrs a day.



When I originally started the project,I figured it would be alot of modifiying,cutting,and fabricating to get it on the truck,with no turning back afterwards. By the time I was finished it can actually be done very easily with minimal modifications and fabrication. The only things I had to make were two little steel tabs to extend the upper bracket,and machine off one side off the new pulley to line up the belt. I had to bend a few of the steel heater lines,and change one hose elbow (with an off the shelf part),so that nothing rubbed against anything. Other than that,a few new nuts and bolts,and a belt,and the job is done. You may also need to upgrade to a larger alternator fuse if you are using the full capacity as it will blow the stock 120 amp fuse.



It is very sturdy,quiet and powerful,and looks almost factory. Only thing I would probably eventually change is cut and weld the tabs on to my upper bracket instead of bolting them,so it looks one piece. The only draw back to that is if I wanted to reinstall the original style alternator,I would need a new bracket.



I'm not sure I'm allowed to post prices,but the whole job,included machining,was about $370. 00 CDN,which would be around $225 US. Dodge quoted me $365. 00 CDN just for a new factory replacement.



I am still working on a complete list of parts,numbers and dimensions,along with detailed instructions so just about anyone could bolt one on. If there is enough demand,I could even make up a little kit with all the small stuff ready to go so all you need is an alternator. If you want the info,just send me an email,and i'll fire it off when it is finished. I will alos try and get some pics tommorow as well,so you can see for yourself what it looks like.