Amsoil 3000 Diesel Oil

[StrokeThis]

Is anyone using Amsoil 3000 Diesel Oil? What is the diff from their other HD Diesel Oil?

I have a friend that unfortunately drives a PS who claims a shop told him he cannot use the 3000 oil in his rig cause it will bring on problems. Now obviously I can consider what he is putting it in, but does anyone have good/bad data or recommendations for the TD on it?

Although I am not ready to go to synthetics yet (only have 3k miles on it), I would like to switch when the time comes.

------------------
Y2K - 2500 Quad, DP Stage II, Camper Pkg, Tow Pkg, Air Bags, Rancho RS9000x4, RhinoLiner, 3000 Bigfoot Camper

 

[amsoilman]

Strokethis,

The Amsoil 3000 series 5W-30 HDD oil exceeds the requirements for both Cummins and the Ford Diesel's. The oil is rated as a API CH-4 oil.

I currently am useing the 5W-30 Series 3000 HDD Amsoil in my 94'Ram. I have no problems with it. I also have a son-in-law that has a PSD(97' model)who is useing it, and currently has over 40,000 miles on the oil, of course he is also useing the by-pass oil filter and doing oil analysis.

I also have other people I know who are useing this oil in the PSD's as well as the Dodge/Cummins Rams. One PSD owner has a 96 with over 80,000 miles on the same oil. He too is useing the by-pass, and doing oil analysis.


Wayne
amsoilman

------------------
94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.

 

[DieselPuff]

Cummins specifically states not to use 5W-30 oil in the B5. 9 engine. Synthetics shouldn't buy you anything unless you plan to run your engine over 400k miles or operate in -20 F or 120+ F. Your engine, your choice, but it won't help you on resale. Cummins states that the engine will already go 345,000+ miles (that 300k + 15% for ISB) using their recommended Premium Blue. Why not keep your warranty?

-Michael
ASME,SAE,ASHRAE

------------------
'00 2500 RAM, RegCab, 4x2, Cummins, 6-spd, Driftwood/Agate...

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Mike & Strokethis;
I have run Amsoil`s Series 3000 5W-30 & Amsoil`s 15W-40. I was shocked when I read the oil analysis. The 5W-30 had about 40% less wear metals than the "heavier" 15W40. Lighter oil does not neccessarily mean more wear/less protection. Only in a high quality sythetic lube though. #ad


With a new truck, do what Mike says, Stick to what your owners manual says to use #ad


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Signature went with the "crash". . out in cyber space somewhere...



[This message has been edited by HEMI®Dart (edited 02-08-2000). ]

 

[dieselworld]

Viscosity does not transmitt into wear protection. So the Series 3000 will usually give better wear protection.

Actually on the PS Amsoil's low foaming actually are a plus. PS have a problem of oil foaming due to the silicon leach from several engine assembly gaskets. The silicon gets into the oil and the HUEI syste which relies on high oil pressure to activate the fuel injection system is compromised.

------------------
D. O. C. I. Doctor of Compression Ignition
Former Cummins of Atlanta Technician
Get Amsoil at WHOLESALE (including the new synthetic transmission fluid made just for D.
C. automatics) BY PASS THE DEALER!!
-- email address removed --

 

[Skibby]

I have been using synthetics since 1993,I believe again it's my opinion that synthetics aid in cold tempture starting an don't breakdown in high tempture as much. I have had two Dodge Ram's with the Cummin's engine an have had no problems!I use Amsoil 3000 series 5w-30,I would recommend that you wait until your engine has at least 10,000 mi. on the odometer,making sure everthing(things)are seated properly.

Good Luck!


2000 qc,Slt+,6-speed,4:10 anti-spin,dually 4x4,Putco bedrails and tailgate protector,Rhino sprayed bedliner,U S Gear gauges,Mag-Hytec differential cover,Lexan mudflaps,20,000 Reese fifth wheel/hitch,Ultra stainless cab/box boards,Roll-Top tonneau cover

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I think synthetics are the way to go, even with the greater expense to run them unless you run long drain intervals with bypass filtration. I think they're worth the added protection, especially on a "BOMBed" motor. Also deposits are reduced, keeping the engine cleaner and reducing ring sticking. I tend to keep my vehicles well over 200,000 miles, and not only do I want my truck to last that long, I want it to still run like new!!!

On Amsoil's site there is an interesting chart comparing "wear rates" between various brands of motor oil, conducted by an independent lab of course. One thing that is apparent, synthetic oils are not created equal! It is interesting to see, "regular" oils like Delo 400 and Rotella T have a lower tested wear rate than Mobil 1 synthetic!!

Whatever synthetic you use, make sure it has the CG-4 rating minimum, preferably CH-4. Amsoil 5W30 has this, and I believe Mobil Delvac1 does as well.

One last note, an advantage of a lower viscosity oil is there is higher oil pressure further down the oil galleries, and higher flow rate, especially in cold weather.

Vaughn<html>

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage Express 2. 0">
<title>UBB Signature</title>
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<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">

<hr>

<p align="left"><font color="#408080" size="2" face="Graphite Light ATT"><strong>1998 3/4T QC 4x4</strong></font></p>

<p align="left"><font color="#0080C0" size="2" face="Graphite Light ATT"><strong>White over Driftwood, 24 valve,
5-speed, 3. 54 rear, Leather with most options, Camper & Tow
Packages, DeeZee running boards, diamond tread bed rails caps,
275HP injectors</strong></font></p>

<p align="left"><font color="#008000" size="2"><strong>56,920
miles (2-12-00)</strong></font></p>

 

[DiverDave]

Look in the Archives. I just went thru this and did some HEAVY DUTY investigation. I have switched to the Mobil Delvac 1 oil (5 W 40). Starts better and the added bonus of about half (. 5) miles per gallon better fuel economy. I am going to run it 4500 miles then add a quart with a new Mobil 1 filter, and get an oil analyis. Then I am going to do the same thing ant 9000 mile (if the first oil analyis comes back the way it should). Then at 13500 I will do a complete change. The oil is expensive, but then even using the equaly expensive Mobil 1 Oil Filters, I have come up with a net savings and the peace of mind that I am using the BEST in my... . BABY.

Just my 2 cents worth...



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Diver Dave Driving a:
2000, 2500 Quad Cab, 4 x 4, SLT, 5 Spd, 3. 54, Camper Package, Trailer Package, Snowplow Prep,Urethane spray in bed liner, CoverMaster fiberglass cap, Born on 10-20-1999

 

[Mad Max]

VWTdi

You're very well informed I see... . (glad I'm not the only one who watches brand X)

"Keep your friends close, enemies even closer. " #ad


MichaelT-

I must admit to being a little suprised by your observation, I'm not refuting it by any stretch of the imagination. Given your interest in filtration, oil and air, I'm surprised you're not a fan of the exotic synthetics for what ever reason.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

DiverDave,

This is my latest, somewhat revised plan for oil changes, based on my 25,000 miles/year driving, using Delvac 1:

2 oil changes per year, averaging 12,500 miles per change (plan is to run a Winter cycle of 10K, then 15K on Spring-Fall cycle)

Delvac 1 oil @ $5. 25/qt = $57. 75 for oil per change, or about $116 per year
Filter every 5K @ $10 = $50 per year
Makeup oil, 5qts @ $5. 25 = $26. 25
Oil analysis, 3x/year @ $16 = $48

TOTAL for 1 year on Delvac 1: Approx $240/year
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Now if I went with Delo 400, changing every 5,000 miles (5 changes per year)

Delo 400 @ $1. 20/qt x 55 qts = $66. 00
Filters $10 x 5 = $50
Oil analysis 3x/yr @ $16. 00 = $48

TOTAL for 1 year: $164
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

As you can see, it does run almost $75 more per year with my Delvac 1 scenario, but to me it's worth the extra cost for peace of mind. In a year or two I'll probably add a bypass system to extend drain intervals and reduce cost, but first I want to track and trend oil analysis results with standard filtration using Stratapore and Microglass filters. I'm doing this so it's easier to see how much BOMBing and running 10K-15K between oil changes affects wear rates.

Vaughn

BOMBin' with a DELVAC 1 PLAN!!<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage Express 2. 0">
<title>UBB Signature</title>
</head>

<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">

<hr>

<p align="left"><font color="#408080" size="2" face="Graphite Light ATT"><strong>1998 3/4T QC 4x4</strong></font></p>

<p align="left"><font color="#0080C0" size="2" face="Graphite Light ATT"><strong>White over Driftwood, 24 valve,
5-speed, 3. 54 rear, Leather with most options, Camper & Tow
Packages, DeeZee running boards, diamond tread bed rails caps,
275HP injectors</strong></font></p>

<p align="left"><font color="#008000" size="2"><strong>56,920
miles (2-12-00)</strong></font></p>

<p align="left"><font color="#0000A0" size="4" face="Graphite Light ATT"><em><strong>"Cummins smoke,
Powerstrokes choke!"</strong></em></font></p>
</body>
</html>



[This message has been edited by Vaughn MacKenzie (edited 02-14-2000). ]

 

[Oil Man]

Vaughn, I'm posting this at your request. If you think about the thet ir know about the way the 4-ball test is run, then you would know that the repeatability of the test is not good, especially when the parameters are changed like Amsoil has done. The repeatability of this test can vary from tist to test by 0. 12, WOW that puts a different light on the whole thing doesen't it. The test when run with the standard test parameters is a little more accurate, and Amsoil did not run it a t the standard spects. The speed increased from the standard 1200 rpm to the Amsoil 1800 rpmlis so that a thinner oil would do better. Notice that the 5w-40 Mobil Delvac-1 did the 2nd best and the 15w-40's were last The way they changed the test is to stack the deck and make other thicker oils look bad. This is one thing that I have against Amsoil, they don't test to show the read difference, they test to advertise.

Sincerely, Kevin

 

[Mr Freeze]

StrokeThis

The difference between AMSOIL's Series 3000 5W-30 and it's 15W-40 Marine, besides the obvious viscosity, is the additive package. Call AMSOIL at (715)-392-7101 and ask for technical services, they are the ones who know. I do know that Lubzoil, an industry leading maker of oil additives, claims that AMSOIL is the ONLY U. S. manufactorer to use some or their top shelf additives. Even thoe the Series 3000 is a superior oil, I do not use or recommend it over the 15W-40. This is mainly because of price and the great results I and my customers have seen with the 15W-40. The Series 3000 retails at $7. 38 per QT when purchaced by the gallon. The 15W-40 retails at $4. 40 when purchaced by the 10 Qt jug. I have 9 customers running 22 diesel pickups: 12 Fords, 9 Dodges and 1 Chevy. All use the duel remote by pass system, all use oil analysis. One guy Changes every 25,000 mi even thoe his oil analysis has always shown alot more life left in the oil. He feels that he is money ahead at this point. The most his oil, full flow and by-pass filters and analysis and make up oil has cost him is $120. 30 for 25,000 mi. The rest of the guys sample the oil and change the full flow and bypass filters at 25,000 mi and, if the oil is fine, usually run to 35,000 and sample again. The most make up oil any of them has used in 25,000 mi is 6 qts in a Ford , most use only 1 to 3. I use U. S. Oil Chek instead of AMSOIL to do the analysis so there will be no appearance of impropriety. In 122 oil samples of these 22 trucks Iron wear ranged from a low of 18 to a high of 47. Copper from 0 to 36, lead from 2 to 44 and Tin from 0 to 78. All oils had between 25,000 and 45,000 mi on the same drain. So far the only sample that came back recommending an oil change was because of fuel dillution because of a bad fuel injector. The guys that push it the most drain when the TBN hits 5 or lower. We just don't feel that the difference in fuel economy between the 5W-30 and the 15W-40 would ever make up the difference in price. The 5W-30 may last longer, but none of these guys run to the max out of the 15W-40 as it is and none feel they would want to push the 5W-30 any more than the current drains.

amsoilman

In your experiance, do you feel the 5w-30 is cheaper to run?

MichaelT

Using AMSOIL 5W-30 on extended drain intervals will NOT automatically voil a Ford, Dodge or Chevy warranty. I've seen this put to the test.

oilman

Why are you down on the 4 ball Wear test? It was developed by Shell and adopted as an industry standard test by the ASTM. AS for AMSPOIL using the 1800 rpm over the usuall 1200 rpm to the advantage of a lighter oil. AMSOIL did the same thing with motorcycly oils and AMSOIL 20W-50 trounced Golden Spectro's 5W-40 by a wide margin, . 39 to . 65. And when testing AMSOIL's Series 2000 20W-50 Racing oil to Mobil 1 15W-50 racing oil AMSOIL had a . 514 to Mobil's 1. 474 !!! This was the ASTM D 4172 60kg pressure @ 150 C, 1800 rpm for 1 hour. Are you saying at another parameter the results would be reversed? All companies show their products in the best possible light. But I don't know of another oil company that clearly prints the ASTM ytest number and parameters with every one of it's tests, do you?

Sorry for being so long, But I love this subject.

Mr Freeze aka Rudy

 

[amsoilman]

Mr. Freeze,
You asked me a question regarding the 5W-30 series 3000 Amsoil synthetic, and if I thought it was cheaper to run.

I can not truly say, as I have not had it in my truck long enough as yet. I have seen it in other trucks, and it has gone the distance. Infact, I saw one that had over 150,000 miles on the series 3000 oil without pulling the plug. The truck was used to pull travel trailers from manufacturer to the dealers.

Best regards,


Wayne
amsoilman

------------------
94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.

 

[amsoilman]

Oilman(Kevin)
You of all people should know that any multi-grade SAE 5W-40,10W-40, 15W-40 automotive oil has to meet the SAE standards for SAE grade 40 oil. This is the
ASTM D-445 test,and the Viscosity is determined at 100 Deg. C. for SAE Grade 40 engine oil.

In the case of the three oils mentioned above, SAE 5W-40, 10W-40 and 15W-40, they should all fall in the parameters of 12. 50 cSt minimum and 16. 29 cSt maximum. So at this temperature, they are all the same Viscosity.

Now if they are all tested for wear using the ASTM D4172B method under the same exact test using the same exact parameters, this should show which oil is preventing wear, as opposed to another.

In the case of the chart that Vaughn MacKenzie is referring too, the Amsoil series 3000 5W-30 did indeed show less wear rate even though it is less Viscous.

By the way, this test was conducted by the Falex Coporation, the manufacturer of the equipment, and not Amsoil Inc.

Best regards,


Wayne
amsoilman

------------------
94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.

 

[ghillie]

amsoilman,

I hate to do this but I have to agree with oilman. I believe Kevin has been very wrong on other issues, mostly the Diff lube Amsoil/LE #607 test. But I must agree with Kevin as to the misleading way Amsoil plays with test numbers.

I am a long time Amsoil user, and Dealer. I think their product is superior to most. But it is discouraging when they change the parameters of test to suit what they want. That way a person can not compare apples to apples.

I believe had they tested the 5w-30 with the same test parameters as the 15w-40, the 15w-40 would have won out, but we will never know, because they chose to play with the numbers.

Amsoil is awesome that they put their products to the test, but when they play games with the tests they lose credibility.

Thats my . 02 worth.



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Reformed Powerjoke owner, 2000 model, 3500, Quad-cab, 5 speed, 4. 10, 4X4, straight piped.

NRA member

 

[amsoilman]

Ghillie,
If you look at the test we are talking about(The one on the back of the series 3000 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel oil containers) you will see that ALL the oils were tested under the same paramiters. ie (ASTMD4172B)40kg@150 Deg. C. ,1800 RPM for 1 Hour duration. This test simply shows the 5W-30 indicated less wear than the others. Further more, if this were not a true statement, do you think the Amsoil Company would get away with it? Don't you think other Companies would take them to court for false advertising? It certainly is out in the open for everyone to see, is it not? And the FTC has not taken them to court like they have some aftermarket additive Companies, such as Duralube, Motorup, and Prolong.

Wayne
amsoilman




------------------
94'SLT 4X4 AT/White in color. Factory Tow Hooks & Running Boards. Amsoil By-Pass filter, Amsoil Air cleaner,and all fluids are Amsoil. Optima "Red Top" batteries.
BD exhaust Brake, BD Torque Lock, BD Torque Converter, Dr. Performance Stage II Injection Pump. Mag-Hytec Diff Cover,Mag-Hytec Transmission Pan, Isspro Pyro, Boost,Oil temp Gauges mounted in 3 Gauge post mount. One gauge monitors Engine Oil, Trans, Diff. Temps.

 

[DocStressor]

Nice to see another oil/lube argument with a technical twist. While I understand the necessity of laboratory tests as surrogates for real world driving conditions, I also have to question the validity of the 4-ball wear test (ASTMD4172) in comparing motor oils.

Wayne, as you stated in another post, ASTMD4172 is an appropriate test for gear oils. It measures wear under extreme pressures that allow metal to metal contact. It seems to me that the 4-ball wear test would be most sensitive to small differences in the amount of extreme pressure additives in the various oils. So slight differences in the amount of a compound such as zinc dialkyldithiophosphate should have a significant effect on the 4-ball wear test, but may not be mundane to the lubricating properties of the oil in an engine. A good motor oil, in theory, shouldn’t allow much metal contact in a properly broken in engine under normal driving conditions. While the information I have been able to read indicates that most wear will occur during cold starts when there is some potential for metal to metal contact, many properties besides extreme pressure additives influence how much protection an oil will provide.

And Kevin and Ghillie raise a valid point about Amsoil running the 4-ball test at a higher than standard rpm in the comparison with heavier oils. Why do you think they did that? I wonder how Amsoil’s own 15W-40 would stack up against their 5W-30 if the test were run under standard (or arbitrary) conditions. If the results were as good or better, it would be hard to justify the $3/qt price differential. Every manufacturer selects their best data to make a particular point. This is not the same as making unsubstantiated claims.

I’d like to hear your opinion on these issues.


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1999 Quad cab 2500, SB, SLT, 4X4, 5-speed, 3. 54, tow and camper package, Lance 820 camper, Lance cabover stabilizers, Rancho 9000s, Airlift airbags




[This message has been edited by Lee Weber (edited 02-23-2000). ]

 

[Oil Man]

Amsoilman, I have asked the Falex corp about the standard test paremiters for the ASTM D-4172-B. The answer I got back was; 75 deg C, 1200 rpm 40kg for 1 hour. They said a higher rpm difference would make a thinner oil look better.

They also said that the 4-ball is not a good test for motor oils.

Sincerely, Kevin Dinwiddie

 

[ghillie]

Amsoilman,

You missed my point I believe. My issue is with Amsoil playing with the tests to get the results they want, instead of the same 4 ball wear test that will allow the customer to compare apples to apples.

As an example, right from Amsoil's Product Data sheets. All 4 ball wear tests.

5W-30 series 3000 Diesel oil (. 391 scar)
40 kg pressure @ 150 C, 1800 rpm for 1 hr.

15w-40 Marine Diesel oil (. 35 scar)
40 kg pressure @ 75 C, 1200 rpm for 1 hr.

Tested twice by Amsoil, I wonder why?

20w-50 series 2000 racing oil (. 541 scar)
60 kg pressure @ 150 C, 1800 rpm for 1 hr.

20w-50 series 2000 racing oil (. 30 scar)
40 kg pressure @ 150 C, 1800 rpm for 1 hr.

Like I said in my other post, I think it is great that Amsoil steps up the plate and puts up proof how their oil stacks up against the competition. But clearly they are playing with numbers. Why don't they pick a test setting, and stick with it.

I am a definite fan of Amsoil, but this kind of stuff makes me raise an eyebrow, and like I said before Amsoil loses credibility.

Cheers

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Reformed Powerjoke owner, 2000 model, 3500, Quad-cab, 5 speed, 4. 10, 4X4, straight piped.

NRA member

[This message has been edited by ghillie (edited 02-24-2000). ]

 

[ghillie]

Amsoilman,

Wayne, what's up, cat got your tongue?

Henry

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Reformed Powerjoke owner, 2000 model, 3500, SLT, Quad-cab, 5 speed, 4. 10, 4X4, straight piped.

NRA member