Well I guess IF it was EVER asked what kind of fliud in a warranty situation its ATF+4. But in MY 25 plus years in auto dealer service I NEVER remember it being asked. Once in a while times service was requested but never what brand of fliud. The Amsoil ATF in my 1998 1500 SLT made torgue convertor lockup smoother. Never realized that it had a chatter until a flush and install of the Amsoil fliud. I also use it in a 2000 Mercury Gran Marquis 4. 6 V8 RWD.
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Amsoil transmission fluid?
- Thread starter buttugly
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I doubt that Amsoil designers are better then all of the people working at the car companies that design the products.
If Amsoil was really the one oil does it all for any make or model no matter what, don't you think they would be the biggest oil company in the world?
Amsoil uses a lot of smoke and mirrors in their claims.
If Chrysler says to change the transmission fluid at 30,000 miles do you really think Amsoil would really last 90,000 miles without breaking down?
In my 2002 Ram the manual speced the transmission fluid change at 100,000 miles yet here comes Amsoil saying they can go up to three times longer then factory fluids that would be up to 300,000 miles.
Sorry, but hey why don't you Amsoil chaps go pull on someone else’s legs for a while, mine are long enough!
If Amsoil was really the one oil does it all for any make or model no matter what, don't you think they would be the biggest oil company in the world?
Amsoil uses a lot of smoke and mirrors in their claims.
If Chrysler says to change the transmission fluid at 30,000 miles do you really think Amsoil would really last 90,000 miles without breaking down?
In my 2002 Ram the manual speced the transmission fluid change at 100,000 miles yet here comes Amsoil saying they can go up to three times longer then factory fluids that would be up to 300,000 miles.
Sorry, but hey why don't you Amsoil chaps go pull on someone else’s legs for a while, mine are long enough!
Gee John,I sorry you feel this way. For one thing I am not a amsoil chap. When I changed my transmission & diffs fluids out to amsoil products,This is the first time I used anything amsoil. Needless to say no smoke and mirrors here,very happy with there performance in my truck. By the way maybe you should get that chip off your shoulder. coobiejohn3976 said:
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Its your transmission, your money, spend it any way you want.
I would have to bet that the engineers at Chrysler, General Motors and Ford know a lot more about their product then do the lab rats at Amsoil, Mercon V dose not work in GM products, Dextron III dose not work in Ford products and you can bet that ATF+4 dose not do ether GM or Fords products any good, yet here comes Amsoil and they claim to have one single Fluid that works in every brand of vehicle, LOL.
Chrysler now says you should not put Dextron III into your Chrysler transmission, but again we have Amsoil and they say its OK so to heck with GM, Ford and Chrysler what in the world would they know about the products they designed, after all we have the experts at Amsoil to tell us it all right.
Then when a transmission fails you want Chrysler, GM or Ford to fix it when you failed to run the proper Fluid, because the folks at Amsoil said it was OK even through the folks at Chrysler, GM and Ford did not approve of it.
No thanks I will stick to ATF+4 in my transmission, it is a Synthetic fluid and I will stick to API certified oils, you keep believing in the smoke and mirrors and, LOL, when something dose go wrong you do have that Swiss Cheese Amsoil calls a warranty to fall back on, well that is if you can meet all the demands Amsoil places on you in the very limited time line you have to get it done in, you see that is what Amsoil is counting on that by the time a dealer figures out what the cause was, your time limit has expired, it is no wonder Amsoil has never paid out on their warranty, it is next to impossible to meets its many demands.
There have been people who have been turned down by Amsoil when they have made a claim to them, but with the system Amsoil has set up on time lines and things you are required to do, it is almost impossible for you to meet the conditions of Amsoil warranty, in fact I doubt you could ever comply with the Amsoil demands for an oil sample as in 99. 9% of the time the oil in question would be long gone with only the samples taken by the shop working on the engine available and they would have already been used in their oil testing, that leaves you with none and no way to comply with the vaulted Amsoil warranty.
Buyer Beware!
I would have to bet that the engineers at Chrysler, General Motors and Ford know a lot more about their product then do the lab rats at Amsoil, Mercon V dose not work in GM products, Dextron III dose not work in Ford products and you can bet that ATF+4 dose not do ether GM or Fords products any good, yet here comes Amsoil and they claim to have one single Fluid that works in every brand of vehicle, LOL.
Chrysler now says you should not put Dextron III into your Chrysler transmission, but again we have Amsoil and they say its OK so to heck with GM, Ford and Chrysler what in the world would they know about the products they designed, after all we have the experts at Amsoil to tell us it all right.
Then when a transmission fails you want Chrysler, GM or Ford to fix it when you failed to run the proper Fluid, because the folks at Amsoil said it was OK even through the folks at Chrysler, GM and Ford did not approve of it.
No thanks I will stick to ATF+4 in my transmission, it is a Synthetic fluid and I will stick to API certified oils, you keep believing in the smoke and mirrors and, LOL, when something dose go wrong you do have that Swiss Cheese Amsoil calls a warranty to fall back on, well that is if you can meet all the demands Amsoil places on you in the very limited time line you have to get it done in, you see that is what Amsoil is counting on that by the time a dealer figures out what the cause was, your time limit has expired, it is no wonder Amsoil has never paid out on their warranty, it is next to impossible to meets its many demands.
There have been people who have been turned down by Amsoil when they have made a claim to them, but with the system Amsoil has set up on time lines and things you are required to do, it is almost impossible for you to meet the conditions of Amsoil warranty, in fact I doubt you could ever comply with the Amsoil demands for an oil sample as in 99. 9% of the time the oil in question would be long gone with only the samples taken by the shop working on the engine available and they would have already been used in their oil testing, that leaves you with none and no way to comply with the vaulted Amsoil warranty.
Buyer Beware!
Yea, right, gotcha. D. C. also knows tires better then the tire manufactures and knows more about the Cummins engine then Cummins or more about AAM axels then AAM. I bet Amsoil has NO idea about the D. C. rear sliding window or the D. C. ac compressor but I do BET they know FLIUDS as does Mobil,Redline,Royal Purple etc.
I find most warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on. That said buy that overpriced dealer fluid my guess is if you need warranty work they will find another excuse to deny coverage when you show them your recites.
As far as the transfer case mine leaked so bad with OEM fluid I was going broke. I will use Mobil 1 hear and take my chances. If I had an auto I would use it there also and change it every 30K if and when my auto went south I certainly would not want a Dodge rebuild. With the money they charge for extended warranties you can do some nice upgrades down the road.
I met one guy that was told his NV4500 needed a rebuild he put 15-40w in it and still driving it that way 2 years later.
What are they smokin' at dodge anyway I have heard there ATF+4 priced out from 9. 99 to 24. 99 / quart
As far as the transfer case mine leaked so bad with OEM fluid I was going broke. I will use Mobil 1 hear and take my chances. If I had an auto I would use it there also and change it every 30K if and when my auto went south I certainly would not want a Dodge rebuild. With the money they charge for extended warranties you can do some nice upgrades down the road.
I met one guy that was told his NV4500 needed a rebuild he put 15-40w in it and still driving it that way 2 years later.
What are they smokin' at dodge anyway I have heard there ATF+4 priced out from 9. 99 to 24. 99 / quart
On the price issue, fair enough, but here is a link that will get you six gallons, that is 24 quarts for the price of:
6 gallons: $109. 99
Price per gallon: $18. 33
Price per quart: $4. 58
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...item=7981319126&category=6763&sspagename=WDVW
Let Amsoil stick that in their pipe and smoke that for a while.
6 gallons: $109. 99
Price per gallon: $18. 33
Price per quart: $4. 58
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...item=7981319126&category=6763&sspagename=WDVW
Let Amsoil stick that in their pipe and smoke that for a while.
Or you can get for even less if you buy by the case in quarts:
One quart case: $47. 99
Price per quart: $3. 99
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...3&ssPageName=MERC_VI_ReBay_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores
One quart case: $47. 99
Price per quart: $3. 99
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...3&ssPageName=MERC_VI_ReBay_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores
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john3965... ... ... You got to be kidding again! All these hot shot engineers design vehicals to self-destruct after a given time. What insentive would auto companys have if their vehicals lasted 200k miles? Unless they priced them for 100k each. Amsoil seems to be proven. I'll go with Amsoil, my dealer recommended it!
So you think the Amsoil snake oil will be like magic and make your vehicle last twice as long just because Amsoil said so?
Like I said if Amsoil really was so great it would be the dominant oil company in the world, yet they are just a bit player with a small fraction of the total market.
Once again, GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi and others all have defferent requirements when it comes to their transmission oil, you cannot put Mercon V in a GM transmission and expect it last, same with putting ATF+4 in a Ford transmission, it just wont last, yet here comes Amsoil and they say ours works in every thing.
Yeah right.
You know why Amsoil gets away with it? because even if you run their oil, by the time it dose its damage Amsoil can say hey it was not our product it must have been a faulty transmission.
Like I said if Amsoil really was so great it would be the dominant oil company in the world, yet they are just a bit player with a small fraction of the total market.
Once again, GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi and others all have defferent requirements when it comes to their transmission oil, you cannot put Mercon V in a GM transmission and expect it last, same with putting ATF+4 in a Ford transmission, it just wont last, yet here comes Amsoil and they say ours works in every thing.
Yeah right.
You know why Amsoil gets away with it? because even if you run their oil, by the time it dose its damage Amsoil can say hey it was not our product it must have been a faulty transmission.
A little more transmission info:
What is the Correct Transmission Fluid for My Transmission?
Automatic transmissions are very sensitive machines. Some of the smallest clearances machined into any vehicle are in an automatic transmission. Some of the clearances are in the tenths of thousandths of an inch. A fluid that is too thick or too thin can cause operational problems.
An automatic transmission uses friction to transfer torque. The friction material in the clutches and bands react against steel. The coefficient of friction between these surfaces is critical. A fluid change can make a large change in the frictional properties. If the new fluid is "slipperier" than the fluid that the transmission was designed to use the friction material will slip and the transmission will fail in a short time.
Some fluids are not compatible with materials used in the transmission. Certain fluids can degrade the friction material or seals, leading to a transmission failure.
Ford has specified specific fluids for all of it's transmissions. For the E40D and 4R100 transmission Ford specifies MERCON rated fluids. The owner's manual and service publications warn against using MERCON V or a fluid that has both MERCON and MERCON V ratings.
The new TorqShift five speed automatic transmission uses an all new fluid called MERCON SP. This transmission will not operate properly on MERCON or MERCON V fluid.
What is the Correct Transmission Fluid for My Transmission?
Automatic transmissions are very sensitive machines. Some of the smallest clearances machined into any vehicle are in an automatic transmission. Some of the clearances are in the tenths of thousandths of an inch. A fluid that is too thick or too thin can cause operational problems.
An automatic transmission uses friction to transfer torque. The friction material in the clutches and bands react against steel. The coefficient of friction between these surfaces is critical. A fluid change can make a large change in the frictional properties. If the new fluid is "slipperier" than the fluid that the transmission was designed to use the friction material will slip and the transmission will fail in a short time.
Some fluids are not compatible with materials used in the transmission. Certain fluids can degrade the friction material or seals, leading to a transmission failure.
Ford has specified specific fluids for all of it's transmissions. For the E40D and 4R100 transmission Ford specifies MERCON rated fluids. The owner's manual and service publications warn against using MERCON V or a fluid that has both MERCON and MERCON V ratings.
The new TorqShift five speed automatic transmission uses an all new fluid called MERCON SP. This transmission will not operate properly on MERCON or MERCON V fluid.
This site does not believe in the Amsoil fits all:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_care_clinic/1272176.html?page=2&c=y
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_care_clinic/1272176.html?page=2&c=y
Spectro-Oils takes a big swipe at Amsoil stating that Amsoil tests are misleading:
http://www.spectro-oils.com/letters.htm
Via e-mail
Hi,
I read your charts and was wondering why you list Amsoil for comparison also?
Bob
Were you wondering why we DO NOT list them or DO list them?.....
there is not mention of them in the graphs--lets put it another way IF you compare their's and your's ---where?
IF you don't ---Why?
Check out the 'letters' page on our site (below)... . you will see an Amsoil graph that depicts their oils as having the highest content of ZDDP additive of all motorcycle oils... . this is completely a false statement.
Compare these numbers to our numbers on my graph and you will see.
You will see that they also like to compare our oil to their oil, but, they chose to do it in the most misleading way possible... . by choosing our synthetic racing oil to compare with their oil for a street Harley. We beat all their oils for ZDDP additive content and when compared fairly, we also beat their oils in the 4 ball wear tests.
Mike Baldwin - Marketing Manager
http://www.spectro-oils.com/letters.htm
Via e-mail
Hi,
I read your charts and was wondering why you list Amsoil for comparison also?
Bob
Were you wondering why we DO NOT list them or DO list them?.....
there is not mention of them in the graphs--lets put it another way IF you compare their's and your's ---where?
IF you don't ---Why?
Check out the 'letters' page on our site (below)... . you will see an Amsoil graph that depicts their oils as having the highest content of ZDDP additive of all motorcycle oils... . this is completely a false statement.
Compare these numbers to our numbers on my graph and you will see.
You will see that they also like to compare our oil to their oil, but, they chose to do it in the most misleading way possible... . by choosing our synthetic racing oil to compare with their oil for a street Harley. We beat all their oils for ZDDP additive content and when compared fairly, we also beat their oils in the 4 ball wear tests.
Mike Baldwin - Marketing Manager
Amsoil found to alter test to their favor? Say it aint so!
Via e-mail
'Worst for Wear'?
I just visited a web site of one of your competitors and found a chart that showed your oil as the worst for wear. What is that all about?
Jeff
Jeff,
Thanks for your e-mail. I know right away which charts you are referring to. They’re the ones titled "WEAR PROTECTION", ANTI-WEAR CHEMISTRY" and "LESS IS BETTER" on Amsoil’s web site on their motorcycle oil page.
I've posted their charts below:
The "Four Ball" Wear Test ASTM D 4172 sounds like a very cool way of knowing which oil is going to protect your motorcycle against wear the best. The only problem is that this test is designed to be used for sliding surface wear lubricating fluids, like differential hypoid gear oils according to the ASTM. The CEO of Amsoil, Mr. A. J. Amatuzio, wrote several of those articles promoting that graph as an instrument to show Amsoil as a superior oil, and he knows very well that the ASTM D 4172 is designed as a sliding surface gear and pinion wear test for differential gear scarring. Amsoil’s use of such a test and their choice of using our racing oil to compare with other motorcycle oils to fool their customers is bordering on irresponsible and certainly unfair to the other oil brands mentioned. He is banking on the fact that most people will be fooled and will be unaware that this test is for a different use. Normally, I never would respond to these type of "Snake Oil Salesman" tactics but, since Spectro is specifically mentioned in Amsoil’s promotional and advertising material, along with the Harley oil, I feel compelled to respond to this charade.
First, I am curious as to why Amsoil chose to put the Spectro SPL Racing oil 5w40 in their graphs titled " ANTI-WEAR CHEMISTRY" and "LESS IS BETTER" with all the other 20w50 Harley oils. Oh yes, it must be because that is our oil for racing use with the least amount of Zinc- Phosphorus (ZDDP) additives. They chose to use our racing oil in their charts to show Amsoil products containing more ZDDP than other brands of motorcycle oil. Problem is, that our SPL race oil is not a motorcycle-specific oil. More on this later.
We know, as he does, that high levels of this additive are unnecessary for racing use. You see, these additives are proven to work with the same effectiveness regardless of the amount present in the oil! (so long as there is at least some ZDDP present at all times) Where the benefits of high doses of ZDDP are actually realized is in long-term and long distance use, ensuring that the oil never runs out of this critical additive. That’s why our Golden Spectro 4, Golden American 4, Spectro Heavy Duty and Spectro 4 motorcycle oils all have roughly 50% more zinc-phosphorus additive than our Race oils. Even much more than any of Amsoil’s oils! His claim that his motorcycle oils, "contain more zinc and phosphorus than popular motorcycle oils" is clearly a misstatement. One look at the additive chart of our Golden American 4 20w50 will dramatically prove that he is having trouble with seeing the truth. Our SPL 5w40 Race Oil, as tested by Amsoil and listed in their charts, is a ‘Multi–use’ racing lubricant for cars, bikes and any other vehicle seeking to gain an increase in horsepower. Totally different application. We do not recommend it for use in a Harley! Our Golden Spectro 4, Golden American 4 and Spectro 4 motorcycle oils are, however, very popular motorcycle oils and as such, have always come with the highest levels of ZDDP additives available for an extra margin of safety in motorcycle use. To view their ZDDP additive content charts and to compare their ZDDP numbers to the Amsoil products, visit our ‘oil comparison’ page.
Second, I have a problem with Amsoil’s use and method of the ASTM D 4172 test. The ASTM specifies that this test must be conducted at 75 deg. centigrade (167 F) + or - 2 degrees and a rotation speed of 1,200 RPM + or - 60 RPM for 60 minutes + or - 1 minute. Their tests are not to be subject to the user’s whims or needs, they are to be conducted only one way, within these specifications, regardless of whether the machine used can operate at different speeds and temperatures. The temperature required for this test is not to be changed and is obviously intended for transmission lubricating fluids, not engine oils, based on the required operating temperature.
Amsoil, as quoted in their brochure G-391, says," Amsoil submitted four popular motorcycle oils to spectrographic analysis and Four-Ball Wear (ASTM D 4172) testing" but two paragraphs later say that, "Amsoil conducted the Four-Ball Wear Test at 302 F/ 150C , a significantly higher temperature…", and their chart actually says the tests were run at 1,800 RPM. I would like to know if Amsoil really sent these oils out for the ASTM D 4172 tests to an independent lab or if they conducted the test themselves, as they readily admit. I would be very suspicious of any result found and published by a manufacturer that does not follow strict ASTM guidelines and is conducted in such a way as to intentionally alter the ASTM results, as Amsoil has clearly done. That's my opinion.
Mike B.
Via e-mail
'Worst for Wear'?
I just visited a web site of one of your competitors and found a chart that showed your oil as the worst for wear. What is that all about?
Jeff
Jeff,
Thanks for your e-mail. I know right away which charts you are referring to. They’re the ones titled "WEAR PROTECTION", ANTI-WEAR CHEMISTRY" and "LESS IS BETTER" on Amsoil’s web site on their motorcycle oil page.
I've posted their charts below:
The "Four Ball" Wear Test ASTM D 4172 sounds like a very cool way of knowing which oil is going to protect your motorcycle against wear the best. The only problem is that this test is designed to be used for sliding surface wear lubricating fluids, like differential hypoid gear oils according to the ASTM. The CEO of Amsoil, Mr. A. J. Amatuzio, wrote several of those articles promoting that graph as an instrument to show Amsoil as a superior oil, and he knows very well that the ASTM D 4172 is designed as a sliding surface gear and pinion wear test for differential gear scarring. Amsoil’s use of such a test and their choice of using our racing oil to compare with other motorcycle oils to fool their customers is bordering on irresponsible and certainly unfair to the other oil brands mentioned. He is banking on the fact that most people will be fooled and will be unaware that this test is for a different use. Normally, I never would respond to these type of "Snake Oil Salesman" tactics but, since Spectro is specifically mentioned in Amsoil’s promotional and advertising material, along with the Harley oil, I feel compelled to respond to this charade.
First, I am curious as to why Amsoil chose to put the Spectro SPL Racing oil 5w40 in their graphs titled " ANTI-WEAR CHEMISTRY" and "LESS IS BETTER" with all the other 20w50 Harley oils. Oh yes, it must be because that is our oil for racing use with the least amount of Zinc- Phosphorus (ZDDP) additives. They chose to use our racing oil in their charts to show Amsoil products containing more ZDDP than other brands of motorcycle oil. Problem is, that our SPL race oil is not a motorcycle-specific oil. More on this later.
We know, as he does, that high levels of this additive are unnecessary for racing use. You see, these additives are proven to work with the same effectiveness regardless of the amount present in the oil! (so long as there is at least some ZDDP present at all times) Where the benefits of high doses of ZDDP are actually realized is in long-term and long distance use, ensuring that the oil never runs out of this critical additive. That’s why our Golden Spectro 4, Golden American 4, Spectro Heavy Duty and Spectro 4 motorcycle oils all have roughly 50% more zinc-phosphorus additive than our Race oils. Even much more than any of Amsoil’s oils! His claim that his motorcycle oils, "contain more zinc and phosphorus than popular motorcycle oils" is clearly a misstatement. One look at the additive chart of our Golden American 4 20w50 will dramatically prove that he is having trouble with seeing the truth. Our SPL 5w40 Race Oil, as tested by Amsoil and listed in their charts, is a ‘Multi–use’ racing lubricant for cars, bikes and any other vehicle seeking to gain an increase in horsepower. Totally different application. We do not recommend it for use in a Harley! Our Golden Spectro 4, Golden American 4 and Spectro 4 motorcycle oils are, however, very popular motorcycle oils and as such, have always come with the highest levels of ZDDP additives available for an extra margin of safety in motorcycle use. To view their ZDDP additive content charts and to compare their ZDDP numbers to the Amsoil products, visit our ‘oil comparison’ page.
Second, I have a problem with Amsoil’s use and method of the ASTM D 4172 test. The ASTM specifies that this test must be conducted at 75 deg. centigrade (167 F) + or - 2 degrees and a rotation speed of 1,200 RPM + or - 60 RPM for 60 minutes + or - 1 minute. Their tests are not to be subject to the user’s whims or needs, they are to be conducted only one way, within these specifications, regardless of whether the machine used can operate at different speeds and temperatures. The temperature required for this test is not to be changed and is obviously intended for transmission lubricating fluids, not engine oils, based on the required operating temperature.
Amsoil, as quoted in their brochure G-391, says," Amsoil submitted four popular motorcycle oils to spectrographic analysis and Four-Ball Wear (ASTM D 4172) testing" but two paragraphs later say that, "Amsoil conducted the Four-Ball Wear Test at 302 F/ 150C , a significantly higher temperature…", and their chart actually says the tests were run at 1,800 RPM. I would like to know if Amsoil really sent these oils out for the ASTM D 4172 tests to an independent lab or if they conducted the test themselves, as they readily admit. I would be very suspicious of any result found and published by a manufacturer that does not follow strict ASTM guidelines and is conducted in such a way as to intentionally alter the ASTM results, as Amsoil has clearly done. That's my opinion.
Mike B.
Last edited:
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Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
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