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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission ANATOMY of a fuel tank gauge unit

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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Front end rebuild

Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 97 12value fuel plate and egr

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Seems there are a fair number of owners beginning to experience problems/failures with the sending units in the fuel tanks. Bob Weis has another long thread running that addresses totally replacing the existing OEM unit with what is expected to be a better aftermarket setup - and so far it's looking good.



BUT, for those who haven't yet seen what the OEM senders look like, here's an overview. The 2 major areas of problems seems to be either the electronics board that the tank float connects to, or a disintegration of the float itself. Here's a pic of the complete float/sender assembly - there is normally an electrical lead attached, but this is Bob's old OEM unit, and he removed the lead for his new setup:



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Here's a closeup of the disassembled electronics board, showing the construction of the side the float arm and electrical slider work against in normal operation:



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ACTUALLY, the general quality of construction seems rather good - the traces seen on the board's surface look to be silver plated, and so are the contacts on the matching float arm contacts. The tension of the contacts can undoubtedly get loose, causing erratic gauge readout - Bob's seemed to be so, but the tension is easily increased by carefully bending the fingers the arm contacts attach to.



Also, there seemed to be noticeable discoloring/corrosion of the float arm contact fingers - didn't appear to have weakened the assembly, and the (apparently) silver contacts themselves were easily cleaned with fine sandpaper - the electronics board contact surface also cleaned up nicely with a common pencil eraser.



Here's a closeup of that assembly reassembled:



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The float on Bob's unit actually looked pretty decent, only some minor erosion at a couple of edges, as though it had rubbed against other tank components. But since other owners have reported total failures of their floats, I thought I'd try a relatively popular liquid inner fuel tank coating that is sold to repair badly corroded fuel tanks - it's called "Kreem".



While the final results from my effort to coat this particular float won't win any beauty contests, it IS coated well, and should provide an added level of protection to this float - and possibly would work to resurrect one that was more seriously eroded:



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It's an individual judgement call as to whether a specific sending assembly is capable of, or worth the effort to rejuvenate it - there's lots of effort involved in getting TO the tank sender, and if the unit is badly deteriorated, it probably makes more sense to just replace it with a new one, or perhaps read up on what Bob did with his, and go that route.



Much thanks to Bob for sending me his old unit for inspection, and preparation of this thread!
 
Gary,



I was discussing the sending unit problem is a guy named Kirk Larson on the dieselram.com forum. He came up with a simple clever fix to the electrical part of the problem. Here is what he had to say:



"Since the fault is due to a lack of contact pressure I looked at it with a goal to apply pressure on the arm where it would do the most good. There is a metal "cover" over the arm that is arched on one side and straight on the other. I simply looked at the space between the metal cover and the plastic part of the arm as I was holding the arm snug against the contacts. I got a piece of sheetmetal (I had some scraps in the shop) that was that thickness and used the metal cover to scribe a pattern onto the sheet metal. I cut this out leaving 3 bend tabs (two at the extremes on the curved side and one in the middle of the flat side). I simply attached this sheetmetal to the underside of the cover plate by bending the tabs tight with a pair of pliers. I filed the sheetmetal smooth so there were no burrs, added a squirt of WD40 and the arm swung smoothly and the contacts remained in full contact. The plastic part of the arm clip rubs on this plate. "
 
YUP! ;):D



Gotta love guys unafraid to improvise! :-laf



That's a bit of a different setup than the one I showed above, but the one I showed could also easily be provided with a support of some sort to help maintain contact if needed. Most guys would probably prefer to simply replace with a new one though.



Thing is, the latest ULSD fuels seems to be more aggressive in corrosion of some metallic surfaces - will be interesting to see if related failures within the fuel systems of older trucks gets to be an issue... :eek:
 
sometimes the trace on the board can get worn though, if you are creative you can shift the wiper a little to ride on fresh surface, i went though the sender on my truck after i got it cleaning and bending and got it working, been working good for the last 19k miles
 
I'm going ot have to go to Gary's house to see how he processes his pics. ALWAYS good! Gotta learn how to do that.



I did our summer vacation and am now on the second verification tank of fuel for the mechanical gauge with the poly float. It is looking good. A little fine tuning and data collection and it will be a done deal.



I think Gary's coating may be a good solution depending how deep you want to go. Maybe new assembly with Gary's coating could be the ticket for most. My total replacement is a ticket for some others. Pick and choose your choice.



Bob Weis
 
Hello Gary

Very nice pics/ Can you tell me what the Scale resistance part # would be in your second picture W/# 35713 shown on it/ Just this plastic piece W/ the copper scales please/ My ohms are not registering correctly on my unit/ Anyone else replace their sender due to deteriorating float would be interested in buying your old sending unit if under 100K miles/ TIA/ Warren
 
Hello Gary

Very nice pics/ Can you tell me what the Scale resistance part # would be in your second picture W/# 35713 shown on it/ Just this plastic piece W/ the copper scales please/ My ohms are not registering correctly on my unit/ Anyone else replace their sender due to deteriorating float would be interested in buying your old sending unit if under 100K miles/ TIA/ Warren



The full-scale (highest) resistance of the assembly is 200. 2 ohms - the lowest resistance displayed with the arm at that end, was 20 ohms - so a spread of 20-200. 2 ohms, at least on the unit I have...
 
I owned my truck for over a year and I got the 'E' & the light a few times, but now it is happening more and more. A spring fix with warm weather for the necessary bed lift. I will probally order a new unit (just in case) and depending on the PITA to get the sender out I may just clean or replace if I have to.

The prox tube does look ok, but drilling a hole with fuel in the tank, no way to keep the inside clean.



What should I due to the pick up area and or screen? I have a FASS pump mounted a few inches away. draw straw?

As for cleaning, I would not use SANDPAPER, emery cloth maybe, buy I would use a scotch brite pad. The plastic peices that brake off are not as harmful as a stuck piece of sand.
 
That is a good point. With the sandpaper, you will damage/erode the potentiometer trace that is wavesoldered onto the circuit board. The idea of using a pencil eraser is best, if it the trace is not to badly corroded.
 
The basic question after all this time is why, why?



1. Why do we have to rely on potentiometer operated fuel senders?? (We don't see the posts regarding companies supplying solid state impedance fuel senders - devices that measure fuel by knowing the height of the 'wet' line on the sensor rods.



2. Why do we also have to fudge around with potentiometer style TPS units when we could have sealed optical disc TPS units that would never deteriorate or misread??



Look around your technological world in 2009 - just how many mechanical potentiometers still survive?? not many - they've been replaced by updated technology.



OK, I'm done…
 
Dieseldog that is exactly what I did with mine. Replaced the fuel sender with a capacitiance type. Got tired of having to replace the stocker. Been working great and didnt cost me any more to put it in than replacing it yet again with another stocker.
 
Dieseldog that is exactly what I did with mine. Replaced the fuel sender with a capacitiance type. Got tired of having to replace the stocker. Been working great and didnt cost me any more to put it in than replacing it yet again with another stocker.



This is the route I am going to go, no moving parts to wear out. My stock sender is slowly giving up the ghost, shows a full tank when half empty.
 
The reason you do not see these units advertised is that they do not operate as advertised when used in units that are subject to use in areas where there are grades of 10 degrees to 30 degrees encountered. They are not very reliable is an understatement.

The only time you can tell how much fuel is in the tank is when it is started in the morning. Fuel level the rest of the day is a crap shoot. I had two (2) capacitance type units manufactured by Centroid in 6 months. After many tests and emails to the manufacturer, and the fuel tank up & down 4 or 5 times…I had enough. I installed a float type (or potentiometer) sender from VDO with 240-33 ohms range. It works perfectly.
 
The reason you do not see these units advertised is that they do not operate as advertised when used in units that are subject to use in areas where there are grades of 10 degrees to 30 degrees encountered. They are not very reliable is an understatement.



The only time you can tell how much fuel is in the tank is when it is started in the morning. Fuel level the rest of the day is a crap shoot. I had two (2) capacitance type units manufactured by Centroid in 6 months. After many tests and emails to the manufacturer, and the fuel tank up & down 4 or 5 times…I had enough. I installed a float type (or potentiometer) sender from VDO with 240-33 ohms range. It works perfectly.



DShore, I wonder why you had so many problems with yours while BarryG says his is working great, strange. Maybe it has something to do with the year model.
 
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The reason is the capacitance units have not been perfected to the point where they operate in all of the varied conditions our trucks are subjected to. Stationary units may work fine. I called ISSPRO and talked to one of their tech service people, who indicated the only unit they recommend is the VDO unit that I purchased. They make sending units similar to CENTROID. This tells me that they do not have confidence in their new technology to recommend it being used in this application. I am not the only one who has had this problem as indicated in a previous TDR post. Oh, and FYI, my fuel tank is exactly like the one in Barry G's previously posted photo.
 
Not disputing what Dshore says his problems were as obviously he had some .



All I can say is mine works fine and have had zero problems with it at least so far. I dont know how more varied my driving could get as I go offroad some, mountain driving with very long grades, twisty curvey, towing, city, highway I dont understand the difference. I know there are several other members here who use them as well without problems. I was not the one to think it up just wrote up my install process. Cap type senders are not new technology by any stretch of the imagination. They may be for Isspro as they just came out with that in the last few months. A member here works for them and was doing r&d on the unit.
 
I believe part of the problem occurs when the unit is shut off when it is parked at an elevated angle of over 10 degrees. The capacitance type sender seems to try to reset itself when the current is interrupted and it is also very slow to react with the delay in this system coupled with delay built into the Dodge OEM system the waiting period is multiplied. When operated in fairly level terrain, if the unit is shut off & restarted in a short period of time it would take 30 min. before the reading returned to a close proximity of the actual tank volume. If you would like to check your unit in the same conditions Barry, come to Lake Havasu City, AZ…do a few on/off cycles on their roads and driveways and then report your findings. Capacitance type senders may not be new, but they are not reliable yet, by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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