Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) another failed lift pump?

[Smitty2500]

I just got back from a 3,000 mile trip last week and haven't driven the truck all week. Made an appointment at the dealer to get my cracked dash replaced and wanted to change the oil and fuel filter. Changed out the fuel filter and wouldn't ya know it, it don't start. Never had a problem with the fuel system. Bumped the starter to cycle the lift pump 10-15 times and no go. Now I'm kicking myself for putting off gauges. They'll be on order this week. Am I on the right track with the lift pump?

 

[Ncostello]

It could be the lift pump is fine but the fuel system is air locked. Sometimes I don't think the Carter lift pump can over come all air in the system if a big gulp is ingested... such as a filter change.



On my truck it varies. Even with a brand new lift pump I had trouble getting the system to prime. It started out strong pumping 15psi then dropped off to 3psi. This was priming an empty fuel system that had been sitting for a week. I ran the lift pump on direct 12V to let it run for a while w/o bumping the starter (using a harness I made with the correct plugs).



Basically... I had fuel in the system but it wasn't pumping all the way through. Try flooring the pedal then cranking the engine over for however long it takes to start. I got this from injector changing instructions from Piers.



On mine this may mean cranking for 15-20 seconds solid but it will fire up. This is a last ditch effort that always works for me. After its running the pressures come up to where they should be and are fine from there on out. All of this is based upon the fact that your lift pump is still working. But like I said after a filter change even a good lift pump can often be difficult to get along with. My truck has only fired right up without a stumble or "no start" ONCE after changing the filter. This was even after I ran the lift pump for like 2 minutes non stop.



Changing the filters on these trucks is sure an unpleasant experience at best even when everything is working properly. I've never had any trouble on ISC's or Cat engines.

 

[Sixpack]

Try flooring the pedal then cranking the engine over for however long it takes to start.

I would suggest 10-15 second bursts with the starter and then let cool for a couple minutes. I'm sure that is what Ncostello meant. Good luck, Phil :-laf

 

[Ncostello]

Yes... 10-15 seconds seems like 5 minutes when your cranking and nothing is happening. Letting the starter cool is important if you don't get it on the first try. I've never had to do two rounds of cranking.



If/when it finally starts... it could run rough. Let it idle and it will come out of this. Mine has done this... as well as finally fire up and run perfectly normal as if nothing was wrong.



Having to crank this long kinda reminds me of what a Powerstroke sounds like on every start. I'm used to about 1/2 engine rotation and I'm off and running.

 

[RWatson]

I change my fuel filter around every 10k and experience this each time. I have found that after I install the new filter I need to prime the system by opening the banjo bolt and turn the key just begore she starts then let the pump run for approx 25 seconds watchinig for fuel comming out of the banjo bolt. It may take two or three tries and then tighten all up and crank her until she starts. A pain in the, biut works everytime for me .



Randy

 

[Smitty2500]

Thanks to everyone, I got the truck going. I guess I was having a bad day yesterday and jumped the gun a little when my baby wouldn't fire. This is why this site is so great

 

[John - K5AWO]

I changed out my fuel filter last Sunday and the lift pump lost prime.



What I did to help it out was the usual loosen #1,3,5 injectors and I pressured up the fuel tank with air. Really helped out.



I have a fuel cap that I have drilled a hole in the center. Pulled thru a valve stem for a tubeless tire/wheel. Then I epoxied it in place so no air leaks.



I had already fixed up this jig to pressure test my old truck before going to emissions. Was handy to have on hand when the lift pump lost prime.

 

[Ncostello]

If I ever get to the point where I have to loosen injectors to change a fuel filter... I'll be buying a different truck.



I tried air pressure once... 5psi to the tank. It didn't work at all for me. I figured it was because I was putting pressure on the return line too... so fuel couldn't flow in either direction just the same.



I would imagine if you loosen injectors... then some fuel would come out from using pressure. Although some of the fuel may be coming out through the return line path.

 

[PKleine]

A trick that has been working for me is to leave the fuel filter cover loose, so it will leak. Then I bump the starter to start the lift pump. Once it starts to make a mess, I torque the filter cover down to stop the leak. The truck starts right up and runs smooth. The problem with this method is the mess... :-laf

 

[OPoole]

with a carter 15lbs. back at the tank i have no problem starting after a filter change. It's not used as a pusher pump. this is the only pump i run lift pump die a 18,000 miles

made up a fuel system with 3/8 line tank to filter housing 3/8 to vp44 with press. port for gauge this system works great the pumps on a relay 14psi at idle 8psi wot with Big injectors i install this kit on a few trucks in town they love it

 

[mcoleman]

I always prefill the filter housing before I re-install it. Truck fires right up no problems and no extra fuss. As soon as the truck is back with the new transmission I will be installing an Air Dog system that is currently laying in the floor waiting. I'm though with lift pumps.

 

[mhenon]

re-fill the filter housing

Filling up the filter housing after installing the new filter is exactly what I've been doing. I never read anything that said that proceedure was required... but it seemed to make sense. The engine fires up like usual after changing out a filter.

I think the one thing to look out for with pr-filling the filter. . is the possibility of getting "any" dirt in the fuel that goes in the housing. This would go directly into the VP44... and that would be bad. JMO



Mike

 

[Challenger-II]

A trick that has been working for me is to leave the fuel filter cover loose, so it will leak. Then I bump the starter to start the lift pump. Once it starts to make a mess, I torque the filter cover down to stop the leak. The truck starts right up and runs smooth. The problem with this method is the mess... :-laf

Why dont you just remove the NPT plug from the test port that is on top of the filter housing?? Unless you dont have these?

 

[PKleine]

Why dont you just remove the NPT plug from the test port that is on top of the filter housing?? Unless you dont have these?

Exactly, mine has the one piece plastic cover. No test port. I've been thinking of putting in a tee at the vp-44 where I'm picking up the fuel pressure. One side of the tee would go to a valve, used for bleeding the fuel system. I change the fuel filter every other oil change, so I guess I'm not that motivated yet.



PK

 

[GLASMITHS]

Pre-filling the filter bowl will do the trick. I have had to change the filter 4 times in roadside parks; so there is always several bottles of additive on hand. because of contamination concerns I would not keep #2 in a can for this purpose. So the additive is poured in about 3/4 full then the filter. Have never missed a beat. Also because of the bed tank it will push the fuel thru the filter. I have to switch to Dodge tank to change the filter; otherwise the fuel just pours out. Maybe that is why my origional lift pump lasted for 107K and was still good.

 

[mhenon]

Viola!

Glasmith, Just read your post and a little light bulb went off in my head. You hit on the cure for the LP problem. I didn't think a tank in the bed would provide "that" much pressure at the VP44. So here's the solution:

Install a 30 gallon, or bigger, aux fuel tank in the bed. Plumb the OEM fuel tank, along with the Carter LP and OEM filter, so that it only feeds the aux tank. Then just gravity feed the VP44 from the aux tank... LP problems... gone!!

So what if the LP fails... you could still run off the bed tank until the Lp gets replaced. Whata you guys think?



Mike

 

[GLASMITHS]

If you are talking about gravity feeding direct to the VP44 out of a bed tank. . Well you cain't do that long term because it needs to be filtered just prior to entering the VP44. That tank will have algia (sp) sooner than later and other things. My bed tank provides a positive pressure to VP44 thru the filter and lift pump. No much but it does not have to (the lift pump) to suck that hard, as with the oem tank. We are talking lift pumps; the VP44 issue is completely different.



Also I use either Power Service or Stanadyne double strenth at all times; PLUS Royal Purple Syn 2 cycle oil (ashless) 1qt per 100 gal.

 

[John - K5AWO]

My only comment on rerouting the plumbing to feed from the bed tank is that when the lift pump fails, the rotary vanes in the lift pump will act as a brake to sucking fuel thru by the VP. I don't think that you will have gained what you hope to gain.



As for alge (sp) in the bed tank, don't know why that would be any different than the factory tank. A little algicide preventative from time to time is just good PM.



As for lubrication for the VP, I use up to a 50/50 mix of diesel with used motor oil AFTER it has gone thru my filtration system down to 2 microns before it get pumped into my bed tanks.

 

[GLASMITHS]

My only comment on rerouting the plumbing to feed from the bed tank is that when the lift pump fails, the rotary vanes in the lift pump will act as a brake to sucking fuel thru by the VP. I don't think that you will have gained what you hope to gain.



As for alge (sp) in the bed tank, don't know why that would be any different than the factory tank. A little algicide preventative from time to time is just good PM.



As for lubrication for the VP, I use up to a 50/50 mix of diesel with used motor oil AFTER it has gone thru my filtration system down to 2 microns before it get pumped into my bed tanks.

1. We are discussing the lift pump not VP44. So, the fuel flows THRU the lift pump and filter to VP44. This helps the lift pump. This is from a large bed tank. The last time the filter was changed the tank was about half full and I noticed that the fuel did not flow a whole lot; which would be natural; as I do not run the tank less than 1/2 full when towing for cooling purposes.



2. I do use Racor Bio-cide 3Xreccomended dose. Last time 6X. It still forms in the bed tank. Perhaps because it is exposed to sunlight - or something.

 

[KTobin]

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