Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Another hard start

[WAnderstrom]

Hello guys

I have read past posts on the hard morning start issue and have done most of the fixes and need help identifying a few more. My truck will have it's little difficulty after sitting for 8 hours or more. If it is started before than there is no issue, it starts right up. During the hard start it will not fire at all with out putting your foot to the floor. It stumbles several times before starting and won't even stumble for at least 1 min of cranking, not continuous of course. Maybe I should let you know what I have done.

Replace fuel return lines

90 elbow

fuel water separator

pre-filter screen o-rings

checked overflow spring 1/2"

checked fuel solenoid function cleaned

solenoid contacts appear fine no corrosion



What next? This is becoming very frustrating, trying to start with winter temps dipping below zero and cranking this long the batteries are getting hammered. :{

Any help appreciated, are there links to helpful threads?

 

[JFaughn]

Are you able to plug it in ?
next is the fuel solenoid could be out of adjustment , I've got to get a way of bringing my memorry or a system for the links to these kind of things,sorry .
what about the fuel supply lines ? the rubber going to the tank and the metal [ where the welded holders are clamped down-they have a habit of cracking at the hold downs ] at least I've read about it being about as comin as the others that you have already adressed .
Just incase you mentioned checking & cleaning the fuel solenoid , did you lift the linkage up [ ing. on ] ?
Then batteries is it turning over fast ?
almost forgot , is the air heater working ? should be noticable on alt. gauge , pulsing down 2-3 volts .

 

[KYOUNG]

Check your fuel heater wires at the plugin to the heater... ... . there should be a green seal around the outside of the connector that seals off air leaks at the heater. . I have had mine leak there before... if the heater wires have been burnt up you can take the heater element out and run it like that, mine starts fine without it.

 

[Joe G.]

Remove the fuel heater and see if that helps. It's the black hockey puck looking thing above the pre-filter gaskets. It's common for it to burn out and cause an air leak through the electrical connector.

 

[WAnderstrom]

Thanks for the help guys I'll spend the next couple of days checking this stuff out. To answer a few Q's The morning hard start is whether it was parked in the garage or plugged in outside. The intake heater is working fine, it sure is amazing how much power that sucker draws. After checking so many different things I noticed my batteries weren't able to last through 2 full heater grid cycles before starting anymore so I just replaced those this morning and the problem was still there. I guess I'll check the fuel heater next. Thanks for the help fellas, I'll be sure to get back with everyone if it works and most definitely if it doesn't.



Will

 

[JTrantham]

I can start my motor without ether, if I plug it in... and that's with compression in the 14s and timing at 26*. It's amazing what that block heater can do

 

[WAnderstrom]

Okay fellas back for more help. I looked in the service manual on how to remove the fuel heater. It wasn't clear on how to do so and make it function without it. I would only do this as a test, if it turns out that this is the problem I will just replace it. The wires on top appear fine, no signs of burning or arcing, no cracks. The wires on the side are in equally good shape, the green rubbery seal is soft and supple. There are no signs of fuel leakage anywhere in the engine compartment, everything is bone dry. I did notice that after I changed my fuel water seperator filter that my light won't go out. I used electric conductivity grease in the wire connections trying to be rid of possible water in there. I have a clear hose on the end of it to help prevent a mess while draining it and noticed that it leaks fuel all over the outside while deporessed making the hose a joke. Is that normal? The sensor is less than a year old. Are there any other simple orings or gaskets easily replacible in the area? Example the lift pump, top of fuel filter etc? Where do I get the parts? Cummins? My milage has taken a hit also, it went from 17+ to 15+. #@$%!

 

[WAnderstrom]

My air leak is getting worse! Now only after a 4-5 hrs of sitting it is hard to start. In the morning even if I push the primer butten 30 or so times it still takes several 20 second pulls on the starter for it to start sputtering and eventually fire.



Will

 

[Joe G.]

If you haven't taken the fuel heater out here is how to do it. Remove the pre-filter from the bottom of the assembly. 17mm socket doe it. Then use an allen wrench to remove the fuel heater. I think it's 8mm. The pre-filter assembly will fasten up where the fuel heater was.

 

[WAnderstrom]

I saw no allen head bolts anywhere. I removed the bowl and looked on all sides and underneath and saw no way to remove it. It won't turn because these little ears on the top of the assembly where the heater plugs it. However it is jiggly loose with the bowl off and tight with bowl on. Is there a place to get a new green oring type seal? I just made a little tiny tear on the outer part of this one trying to put it back in.

Thanks

Will

 

[Joe G.]

Here is where the allen wrench is used:



#ad




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[flattracker]

just an idea

i dont know much about these trucks ,im just a JD mechanic,,but i think there is an check valve at ther front right corner of the pump in a line. i have heard of the ball getting worn and letting all the fuel run back to tank. when your cranken if your getting no white smoke at all,just mabe your loosen fuel prime. just an idea,i know how made that **** makes you feel,,i deal with stuff like that at work every day. i just rebuilt a 9410 comdine that had a fire in the engine bay, allwires and hoses gone,,very nerve racking

 

[WAnderstrom]

I was wondering if there was one somewhere because I sure have to crank a long time for it to fire. Thanks Joe for the Pic. When I went to remove the heater I found that the part you sent a pic of was so loose I was able to remove with my hand. I don't know how tight this should have been but I assume tighter than that. I should be able to replace the flat oring between the heater and housing right? I took it out any way and we'll see how that does over the next couple of days. Meanwhile does any body else know of a ball valve I should be looking for that would loose prime? I think the worst part of finding this crazy thing is halving to wait 5-8 hrs between trying different things. Thanks for the continuing ideas fellas.

Will

 

[Joe G.]

The "ball valve" is the overflow valve. I see in your first post that you checked the spring length. It may be bad anyway, but I doubt it.



The screw should be pretty tight. If it is not then that might be your problem. Anyway, leaving the fuel heater off for a couple of days will let you know if that is the problem. Those of us who live where our butts don't freeze to the ground every winter can throw the fuel heater away. You can always replace the O-rings if they are bad. Mine were kind of sorry looking when my fuel heater failed. I put it back together with the best looking of the two O-rings for a test. It does not leak so I'm leaving it alone.

 

[McLaughlin]

How old is your lift pump? The mechanical pumps on the 2nd gen 12vs are known to be pretty reliable but I recently ran into one that seems to be loosing the prime. You mentioned that you have been priming the truck to get it started if it won't start at all without primining then I'd suspect the check valves in the lift pump may be leaking. Don't know for sure if your lift pump is the same as mine but according to the service there are either two or three check valves in the lift pump that maintain prime. If those leak, the truck can turn over plenty fast but not even try to start.

 

[WAnderstrom]

I still had the hard start this morning but it only to 1 pull of about 20 sec to start. I didn't plug it in last night and the temp got down to high teens. I guess I'll park it in the garage and see if it is better tonight. I also went to cummins northwest today and picked the brain of a service tech. He also suggested checking the ball valve first. He was saying something like take it out and use an air compressor to blow through it. He said the air shouldn't just free flow but should make the ball bounce. Their parts department wants $110 for a new one :--) I couldn't believe it. After my jaw hit the floor he said there was another way to test it by simply putting a set of vise grips on the rubber line when it is acting up and if it starts right up after that the ball valve is bad. He did caution to shut the engine off right away or take the grips off right away or bursted lines would result. He also said that if that wasn't it the lift pump could be bad or a leaking injector and went on to mention a few others that went over my head, just to much info to remember. Lift pump was over $200. I don't think the lift pump is the problem though, it starts just fine even though I don't prime it. I was just trying to relieve some stress from the starter cranking.



As far as the orings go, I searched all over the city of Anchgorage today for the square oring that goes between the heater and the housing and nobody carries square ones. Not even Cummins. They said I needed to buy the whole heater for that one oring. I was so ****** I just laughed. Will a round oring will work? I was able to get the little green oring from them though, I couldn't believe they didn't want $100 for that one, they just gave it to me. I thanked them for all the info and left. Keep the ideas coming guys thanks for all the help.



Will

Well I guess through all this I am getting very attached to this crazy truck.

 

[Joe G.]

Here are some part numbers. I don't know it they are up to date but the parts guy can find the later part number if there is one



Fuel heater/pre filter

... ..... Fuel supply line fitting grommet - Cummins... ... ... 3923194

... ..... Fuel Strainer... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... - Mopar... ... ... ... . 04762962

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... - Cummins... ... ... 3847102

... ..... screen kit... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... - FleetGuard... ... 3845400-S

... ..... pre-filter O-ring... ... ... ... ... ... ..... - FleetGuard... ... 3834185-S

... ..... heater element (includes 3834185-S)

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... - FleetGuard... ... 3907766-S

... ..... cable harness... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... - FleetGuard... ... 3843722-S

 

[Signal73]

As far as the orings go, I searched all over the city of Anchgorage today for the square oring that goes between the heater and the housing and nobody carries square ones. Not even Cummins. They said I needed to buy the whole heater for that one oring. I was so ****** I just laughed. Will a round oring will work?

I got a new one hanging around in the garage. Hemi/Dart sent me 2 when I needed one. PM me your address Ill send it to ya.

Jim