Another LED question...ugh

[lifefloat]

I know this topic has been covered over and over and I apologize in advance for bringing it up again, but I can't figure out why I wasn't able to solve my issue on my own.

Simply put, I changed out the rear taillights to LED on my '98 and of course got the hyperflash so I replaced the flasher relay with an EP27L from superbrightleds thinking this would solve the problem.

Nope.

The flasher they sent me is a 5 pin like the factory flasher and when I put it in it immediately started cycling all on it's own. In other words, the relay is constantly cycling open/close. This is without using the turn signal indicator.

Did I get a bad apple? I think I paid like $12 or something for it. It was a generic part with no branding. The same EP27 5 pin flasher except branded Novita goes for around $20 elsewhere. If I score one of those could I expect different results?

 

[Timd32]

98 is I think a transition year, not all these diagrams work for every rig from what I recall.

Here are some screen shots of the circuit.

Is there anyway to install in backwards?

Not familiar with the physical make up.

 

[Timd32]

I see there is only one way to install these.

Wonder if the physical LED circuit is messing with that timing circuit, did they supply any resistors for the circuit, at times that's needed for LED to function properly with the rig. Might not apply.

 

[petersonj]

when I put it in it immediately started cycling all on it's own. In other words, the relay is constantly cycling open/close. This is without using the turn signal indicator.

By chance, was your emergency flasher switch activated when you installed the flasher? If so, it would be normal for it to start flashing. Is it flashing at the normal speed rate?

I have the same flasher in my '02 for four years now and it works fine with incandescent bulbs, LED bulbs, or a mix of the two.

- John

 

[lifefloat]

Thx for the replies @Tlmd32 and @petersonj

In normal operation ignition must be on to operate the turn signals. I get hyperflash on the turn signals with the stock flasher with ignition on. Emergency flashers flash at the correct rate with IGN ON or OFF.

With the new flasher, the relay constantly cycles (open/close) with the ignition OFF and does not produce a signal to the loads until I engage either the turn signal or emergency light switch. It then cycles properly and lights the turn signals at the correct speed. Once again that is with the IGN OFF.
If I turn the ignition ON the new flasher erratically cycles at a faster rate and when I engage either the turn signals or emergency lights it then cycles and lights correctly.

I have no resistors wired in with the new LED taillights. I think I'm going to add a bit of load back there and see what happens with the stock flasher.

Or I buy a branded LED flasher instead of the potentially bogus non-branded LED flasher I'm getting these weird results from and try that.

The other wild card that may be causing this is the Brite-box up at the headlamps? I converted to Sport lights up there and run halogens for all the lighting in the front. I don't like that washed out white LED look for every day driving.

Anyway...............I'll keep messing with this and if I solve it (eventually I will win is what I'm going with) I will report my findings here. I'm open to any more suggetions too. Thanks.

Scott

 

[petersonj]

I wonder if there is a difference in the wiring - '98 12 valve vs '98.5 24 valve?

If the wiring diagrams are the same, I am thinking you may have a faulty flasher. It's not about adding resistors. The flasher should not activate with the ignition switch and the emergency flasher switch in the off position. Period.

Since your old flasher worked fine (other that hyper-flashing with the LED's), I would not think there is a wiring problem. And, since your old flasher unit has the same connection points, that indicates it is a combination flasher unit.

- John

 

[brucejohnson]

With the new flasher, the relay constantly cycles (open/close) with the ignition OFF and does not produce a signal to the loads until I engage either the turn signal or emergency light switch. It then cycles properly and lights the turn signals at the correct speed. Once again that is with the IGN OFF.
If I turn the ignition ON the new flasher erratically cycles at a faster rate and when I engage either the turn signals or emergency lights it then cycles and lights correctly.

See below...If the combination flasher is activated, key off, and no lights activated until one of the switches are activated (turn left, turn right or 4-way flashers) all indications lead to a faulty combination flasher like John stated.

I wonder if there is a difference in the wiring - '98 12 valve vs '98.5 24 valve?

If the wiring diagrams are the same, I am thinking you may have a faulty flasher. It's not about adding resistors. The flasher should not activate with the ignition switch and the emergency flasher switch in the off position. Period.

The wiring diagrams are the same according to my '98 FSM.
A faulty timing Combination Flasher is the most likely in this situation. It would be consistent with pins 48 (BAT) and 51 (RUN/ACC) being shorted activating the timer circuit. Are other run/acc items activated with key off? This would indicate an issue with a short in the internal circuits of the combination flasher feeding the timer and back feeding through pin 51. Depending on how the internal timing circuit of the combination flasher is designed, it may only affect the actual timing sense circuit and not feed back through pin 51. (< Most likely issue) Digital electronics are fun to trace. Too bad they only give you a labeled box and not the actual circuit used.
Either way, the new combination flasher is highly suspect as the culprit. Then there is always the sneaky ignition switch, but probability is very low and indications would be seen elsewhere...maybe.

On edit: Found a little more information on the inner workings of the combination flasher. It shows a PNP transistor acting as switch. Three sensing resistors, one for turn signal ON sense, one for hazard ON sense, and one for turn signal bulb outage sense.
The schematic would infer the Flash Control circuit is faulty as it is continuously active once plugging into the Junction Block. (No real detailed schematic other than PNP transistor and 12volts)

 

[lifefloat]

Well..................good news everyone. It was a faulty brand new in the box flasher.

I just put in a "branded" Novita flasher and everything works as it should and no more hyperflash. The "non-branded" EP27 flasher is going in the trash.