Another RV Manufacture gone belly up.

[HBarlow]

Well, I guess it depends on the prospective buyer's definition of "high quality" trailer. A Desert Fox does not meet my definition of a high quality trailer. It is probably a fairly well made trailer meaning better construction than Forest River, and Keystone products but it is not even close to the quality of traditional high quality RV trailers like Alfa, Travel Supreme, Mountainaire, or even HitchHikers.

The Desert Fox uses the old dull filon sheet sheathing instead of high gloss fiberglass and uses rolled sheets with corner seams instead of molded one piece end caps just to point out a couple of basics. Narrow trim pieces are screwed and caulked to cover the seams. Likewise, the roof joins the sidewalls with caulked and screwed on trim pieces. This method requires annual inspection and caulking to avoid leaks.

It probably uses home type fiberglass batts to insulate walls instead of vacuum bonded foam walls like NuWa uses to build HitchHikers. Fiberglass batts are fine in a home but in a travel trailer that spends much of its life bouncing down rough highways the fiberglass batts tend to fall in the bottom of the wall cavity.

I looked but couldn't find a single photo or word of written description of contruction methods and materials. The absence of any information tells me a lot about the product when I see that lots of information if provided about bells and whistles that are attached later but not a word of how it was put together, how much insulation it has, whether it is a three season or four season trailer capable of keeping its occupants comfortable in summer heat or winter cold.

Likewise, no information is provided about the frame and running gear.

Sorry Grizzly, I know you are fiercely defensive of the products made by this manufacturer. I would normally agree that their RVs are good products for the price but they don't fit in the usual definition of "high quality" trailer.

 

[RustyJC]

I'm not an Excel fan, but they do build a toyhauler, their Wild Cargo model... .



Rusty

 

[HBarlow]

I either never knew or had forgotten that Excel builds one. Excel builds high quality trailers. I looked at the Wild Cargo toyhauler on their website and like it. If I wanted a toyhauler I would run up to southeast Kansas and look their products over.

I have made many trips to Chanute, KS to visit with NuWa staff and can tell you that those folks in Kansas that I have met and done business with are honest, friendly, helpful people who are a pleasure to deal with. Old-fashioned mid-west values!

If the folks who own and manage Ideal have the same values and attitudes they would also be a pleasure to buy a trailer from.

 

[Grizzly]

Well, I guess it depends on the prospective buyer's definition of "high quality" trailer. A Desert Fox does not meet my definition of a high quality trailer. It is probably a fairly well made trailer meaning better construction than Forest River, and Keystone products but it is not even close to the quality of traditional high quality RV trailers like Alfa, Travel Supreme, Mountainaire, or even HitchHikers.



The Desert Fox uses the old dull filon sheet sheathing instead of high gloss fiberglass and uses rolled sheets with corner seams instead of molded one piece end caps just to point out a couple of basics. Narrow trim pieces are screwed and caulked to cover the seams. Likewise, the roof joins the sidewalls with caulked and screwed on trim pieces. This method requires annual inspection and caulking to avoid leaks.



It probably uses home type fiberglass batts to insulate walls instead of vacuum bonded foam walls like NuWa uses to build HitchHikers. Fiberglass batts are fine in a home but in a travel trailer that spends much of its life bouncing down rough highways the fiberglass batts tend to fall in the bottom of the wall cavity.



I looked but couldn't find a single photo or word of written description of contruction methods and materials. The absence of any information tells me a lot about the product when I see that lots of information if provided about bells and whistles that are attached later but not a word of how it was put together, how much insulation it has, whether it is a three season or four season trailer capable of keeping its occupants comfortable in summer heat or winter cold.



Likewise, no information is provided about the frame and running gear.



Sorry Grizzly, I know you are fiercely defensive of the products made by this manufacturer. I would normally agree that their RVs are good products for the price but they don't fit in the usual definition of "high quality" trailer.

Construction comments on the Desert Fox by JD Gallant;



As I've covered RV shows, visited factories, and talked to consumers throughout the years, I learned that Ron and Sherry Nash build a good trailer -- and they stand behind it. Their product isn't perfect but it has good value primarily because it is well constructed for its price range. Until about 2009, it was mostly wood framed with aluminum skin. Now it's up to the modern standard of aluminum framing, block foam, and fiberglass skin. It appears the workmanship is still above average.



I would say that a 4 star rating is high quality. 4 star rating is the same rating as an Arctic Fox, Hitchhiker, Carri-Lite, Escape, Mobile Suite, Royals International and a few others lesser known. There are two SUV's which are 4. 5 star rated, which are Harmony by Sunny Brook and X-Aire by Newmar.



I will agree that Arctic Fox and Desert Fox aren't in the same league with Hitchhiker, Mobile Suite, Royals International and Excel. By the way Excel is a 4. 5 star rated 5th Wheel. These mentions RV's are higher priced units and do have better insulation and other better features, but there overall construction quality doesn't mean that they are better.



I'll compare that to a Toyota Camry and a Toyota built Lexus. I consider a Camry to be of high quality construction. A Lexus is a high quality construction and high luxury with perhaps a larger engine and many comfort features, but the quality is still the same.



Let's not get Quality and Luxury confused. I know you're very proud of your HH and rightfully so. It's a great RV, but not everyone wants one. I know I don't because I couldn't take it to remote high country places I go to. I would never take one to Alaska and the Yukon Territory. It's too big and it's too heavy. Why can't you accept the fact that there are other high quality RV's without the high luxury and size of a HH?



george

 

[HBarlow]

Grow up Grizzly. When a member asks for information or advice here in the TDR forum I see my responsibility to him as giving honest and open minded advice not trying to convince him to buy what I buy as you often do. Even I who own and like HitchHiker trailers don't rank them among the top quality Travel Supremes, Tetons, Mountainaire (and sisters), or Alfas. HitchHikers are four season and well built but they are in the next tier down from those top quality units because their interiors are not built with the same expensive hardwood cabinetry, plush drapes, thick carpet, etc. I don't try to convince anyone to buy them and NuWa does not even manufacture Toy Haulers. HitchHikers are not even in consideration in this OP's thread.

If you study the Arctic Fox website and that toyhauler model you are pushing you can see with your own eyes that the manufacturer claims it has filon skin. Filon offers the old dull rough finish. Filon is a form of fiberglass but it is not gel coated so will never have a glossy shine and cannot be waxed, polished, or buffed to produce a glossy finish. As it gets older it takes on a darker, grimy look and cannot be polished clean.

Anyone looking can also see that instead of molded end caps that trailer has sheet skin screwed and caulked together at the corner seams.

Filon skin and sheet panels on the ends instead of high gloss gel coat and molded end caps is the cheap method used on cheap trailers. I don't give crap what your hero Gallant says about trailers. I am entirely capable of examining trailers and forming my own evaluations. I suspect I have owned more trailers over the years and have sure as hell pulled more than your idol, Mr. Gallant.

You can buy his four star rating if you wish. I will examine the facts and details as I have for the past 40 years of trailer ownership and form my own conclusions.

 

[Grizzly]

I am grown up, but I don't believe that your are. You still think that a high dollar RV means quality.



RVCG puts a lot of research and inspection into their evaluations. They don't just pull these numbers out of the air. They know what they're doing and are highly respected among the RV world. Every RV dealer in the country subscribe to their ratings. If a buyer is looking at a 4 or 4. 5 star rated RV they will gladly tell you what RVCG rating is . On the other hand if a buyer is looking at a Forest River or a Keystone they won't tell you what the ratings is and act like they never heard of RVCG.



If you you think that you are smarter than RVCG are, then go ahead and draw your own conclusions. That's what the majority of RV buyers do and many get burned.

 

[RVTRKN]

HBarlow is the classic "My ____________ is better than yours because "I" own one". The Nash product is a well made unit, I don't care how it shines, it is functional and comfortable and quality is way above average. I have a AF and based my decision on the fact that, anyone who owns one swears by them. The unit I bought was a used 5ver and has no luxury, except for the normal trimmings, but it has one flaw, the staircase to the bedroom is narrow, but that's because the shower is huge, that I really like. The frame is way oversized for the actual GCVWR, when looked under the AF, I made up my mind to buy it. I looked at some very expensive luxury units of all brands and when I inspected the under side and storage compartments I was disappointed. I did look at a high quality 40' 5ver (don't remember the brand) with four pull outs that I could have got for 30K, but by the time I got my wife to go look at it the 5ver it was gone. Some Dairyman bought it for their first RV to see if they would like it, then bought a quarter million dollar motorcoach. My friend who cleans his dairy told me about it, and it was not advertised. They paid over 100k for it in 06, and was amazed at the quality as well as well as the luxury. My AF is not luxury but just as well built as it.

 

[HBarlow]

2005 Arctic Fox Fifth Wheel Series M-33-5V - 34' Standard Equipment, Prices & Specs - NADAguides

Here's what the link above shows for your trailer. New MSRP was $41,816. Options could have added a couple thousand to the MSRP. Current low retail price is $17,230 and High Retail is $20,760. Not exactly what I would consider a "high quality trailer. "

It looks like the person who told you the original owner paid over $100k for it was, shall we say, either mistaken or knew he had found a sucker.

As I wrote several time in this thread, an Arctic Fox is a good trailer, probably good value for the price if the buyer is informed and a skilled shopper, but they are not even close to a high quality trailer. Artic Fox uses filon low gloss sidewalls and rolled sheet end caps. They also use plain and functional interior fabrics and cabinetry and house type fiberglass batt insulation.

High quality trailers use gel coat fiberglass sidewalls, molded gel coat fiberglass end caps that wrap around the sidewalls. Teton, one of the best fifthwheel makers ever but a victim of the economy, used blue Dow Corning dense foam walls vacuum bonded with interior and exterior and interior walls. NuWa still uses that construction method also.

NuWa does not manufacture a toy hauler hence I have not recommended one to the OP. Only you and Grizzly have brought my HitchHiker into this discussion. What I recommended to the OP is an Ideal which IS a high quality trailer.

 

[HBarlow]

HBarlow is the classic "My ____________ is better than yours because "I" own one". The Nash product is a well made unit, I don't care how it shines, it is functional and comfortable and quality is way above average. I have a AF and based my decision on the fact that, anyone who owns one swears by them. The unit I bought was a used 5ver and has no luxury, except for the normal trimmings, but it has one flaw, the staircase to the bedroom is narrow, but that's because the shower is huge, that I really like. The frame is way oversized for the actual GCVWR, when looked under the AF, I made up my mind to buy it. I looked at some very expensive luxury units of all brands and when I inspected the under side and storage compartments I was disappointed. I did look at a high quality 40' 5ver (don't remember the brand) with four pull outs that I could have got for 30K, but by the time I got my wife to go look at it the 5ver it was gone. Some Dairyman bought it for their first RV to see if they would like it, then bought a quarter million dollar motorcoach. My friend who cleans his dairy told me about it, and it was not advertised. They paid over 100k for it in 06, and was amazed at the quality as well as well as the luxury. My AF is not luxury but just as well built as it.

Interesting. I've never seen a fifthwheel trailer with a gross combined weight rating. Actually, I've never seen a fifthwheel trailer capable of towing anything. Most of them don't have motors, transmissions, steering axles, or steering wheels. Do you tow your truck with your trailer?

 

[RVTRKN]

2005 Arctic Fox Fifth Wheel Series M-33-5V - 34' Standard Equipment, Prices & Specs - NADAguides



Here's what the link above shows for your trailer. New MSRP was $41,816. Options could have added a couple thousand to the MSRP. Current low retail price is $17,230 and High Retail is $20,760. Not exactly what I would consider a "high quality trailer. "



It looks like the person who told you the original owner paid over $100k for it was, shall we say, either mistaken or knew he had found a sucker.



As I wrote several time in this thread, an Arctic Fox is a good trailer, probably good value for the price if the buyer is informed and a skilled shopper, but they are not even close to a high quality trailer. Artic Fox uses filon low gloss sidewalls and rolled sheet end caps. They also use plain and functional interior fabrics and cabinetry and house type fiberglass batt insulation.



High quality trailers use gel coat fiberglass sidewalls, molded gel coat fiberglass end caps that wrap around the sidewalls. Teton, one of the best fifthwheel makers ever but a victim of the economy, used blue Dow Corning dense foam walls vacuum bonded with interior and exterior and interior walls. NuWa still uses that construction method also.



NuWa does not manufacture a toy hauler hence I have not recommended one to the OP. Only you and Grizzly have brought my HitchHiker into this discussion. What I recommended to the OP is an Ideal which IS a high quality trailer.

Interesting. I've never seen a fifthwheel trailer with a gross combined weight rating. Actually, I've never seen a fifthwheel trailer capable of towing anything. Most of them don't have motors, transmissions, steering axles, or steering wheels. Do you tow your truck with your trailer?

Interesting, it's a damn good thing I paid 17,500. 00 three years ago. Read it again, I said I looked at an expensive luxury 5ver. Ya, the GCVWR WAS A MISTAKE, blame my iPhone, but I do plan on adding a hitch and towing my boat behind it. I stated a general comment and never mentioned your HH.

 

[Grizzly]

2005 Arctic Fox Fifth Wheel Series M-33-5V - 34' Standard Equipment, Prices & Specs - NADAguides



Here's what the link above shows for your trailer. New MSRP was $41,816. Options could have added a couple thousand to the MSRP. Current low retail price is $17,230 and High Retail is $20,760. Not exactly what I would consider a "high quality trailer. "



It looks like the person who told you the original owner paid over $100k for it was, shall we say, either mistaken or knew he had found a sucker.



As I wrote several time in this thread, an Arctic Fox is a good trailer, probably good value for the price if the buyer is informed and a skilled shopper, but they are not even close to a high quality trailer. Artic Fox uses filon low gloss sidewalls and rolled sheet end caps. They also use plain and functional interior fabrics and cabinetry and house type fiberglass batt insulation.



High quality trailers use gel coat fiberglass sidewalls, molded gel coat fiberglass end caps that wrap around the sidewalls. Teton, one of the best fifthwheel makers ever but a victim of the economy, used blue Dow Corning dense foam walls vacuum bonded with interior and exterior and interior walls. NuWa still uses that construction method also.



NuWa does not manufacture a toy hauler hence I have not recommended one to the OP. Only you and Grizzly have brought my HitchHiker into this discussion. What I recommended to the OP is an Ideal which IS a high quality trailer.

Teton was more than a victim of the economy. They were also a victim of themselves. They are 3. 5 star rated. Read this from RVCG;



Teton Homes was founded in 1967 in Casper, Wyoming by Robert Ingram. At first, they manufactured simple trailer coaches, eventually moving up to their best-known products, luxury fifth wheels designed for extended living. Definitely aimed at the high-end market, as they developed, the Teton brands were transformed into luxury homes rather than RVs as such.

With the senior Ingram's retirement, his son, Tony Ingram took over the company reins and became sole owner in 1995. Ingram's desire to diversify into the production of high-end diesel motorhomes prompted him to sell a controlling interest in the business to investment firm Webster Capital in 2005. Ingram stayed on as president and retained minority ownership.

Unfortunately, with the rapid decline in demand for high-line vehicles, Ingram's dream of a luxury class A never became a reality. In 2007, he was replaced by former Fleetwood executive Chris Braun. In the fall of 2008, amid a chorus of denials from Webster's executives, Teton closed its doors.



Here's what JD Gallant of RVCG has to say;



Teton was, to the end, a builder of "travel homes". I saw their fifth wheels being built and was impressed by the massiveness of their towables. They were big and well structured. To the end, they used wood framing, which made them an all-season home. But they had structural problems. Unbeknownst to them, I saw them repairing a 3-year old home that had rotted framing at the front. Although they and I knew that the roof that was their weakness, they never bothered to work at remedying the problem. I'm sure their problem was a combination of design and workmanship. They used rubber before switching to vinyl. Whether walls, roof, or floor, they built without regard to weight -- which made them sturdy enough to withstand a tornado. I always disliked calling them trailers because they were so heavy they were often unsafe to tow with anything except a tractor-trailer truck. But these travel homes were great for homes on wheels. Almost as good as a manufactured home. But things change! JD Gallant





The highest price for a 40' new Teton 5er was $208K, which is pure luxury, but not necessarily pure quality.

 

[AABEN]

Sounds like more of are TAX dollars has gone down again!

 

[HBarlow]

Tax dollars? What does an RV manufacturing plant closing have to do with tax dollars?

 

[RVTRKN]

Tax dollars? What does an RV manufacturing plant closing have to do with tax dollars?

This is what I think AABEN is referring to.

This American-

Chinese business alliance was widely publicized and

even resulted in a trip to the White House, where the

MVP / Chung arrangement was praised as a major

step forward in international relations.

With the new funding, MVP ramped up production

of their towables and developed a prototype for a

new all-electric class C, along with plans for an electric

class A motor home. Then the waiting began.

Production slowed and finally ground to a halt as the

promised additional funds failed to materialize. What

happened?

 

[RVTRKN]

Just this last weekend, I parked my rig across the street from a resturant in Parker AZ. And when I sat down some old gentelman came up to our table and asked me if that was my Fox and complimented me on the combination. He went on to tell me that he has his rig outside as well and loves it. If I had more time that day, I would of had a longer conversation. But my point is, that anyone who owns one, is proud of it. Kind of like my Harley Davidson, I get the same experiance with other owners.

 

[george]

Just this last weekend, I parked my rig across the street from a resturant in Parker AZ. And when I sat down some old gentelman came up to our table and asked me if that was my Fox and complimented me on the combination. He went on to tell me that he has his rig outside as well and loves it. If I had more time that day, I would of had a longer conversation. But my point is, that anyone who owns one, is proud of it. Kind of like my Harley Davidson, I get the same experiance with other owners.

Hey RVTRKN are you aware of the Northwood group? Website like this and they have get togethers. When they meet in La Grand Oregon they tour the factory where the rigs are made. When I went on the tour, back in 2003, the give giving the tour said he was building a house and he couldn't afford to build it with the quality of would that the trailers were made with. There was a picture in the office there of a Nash trailer that was in an accident along with a truck and a boat, they say the boat and truck got totalled the Nash was upside down didn't even break a mirror inside the A/c got pushed in the truss and the side of the trailer needed to be reskinned.

 

[george]

I took a picture of the picture

Pretty well built trailer.

 

[Grizzly]

I hear stories all the time about how well built Northwood trailers are, which are true, however there are many other 4 star and 4. 5 star trailer that are well made and can withstand some serious collisions.



Many years ago I had an old 68 10. 5' Travel Queen truck camper. It was very heavy and built like a tank. I saw pictures of some that had rolled over and they stayed intact. They were made with a round top and had a steel roll bar across the middle.



Some of you old timers may remember the old Travel Queens. They were popular in the 60's and 70's.



griz

 

[george]

I'm sure

I know there are a lot of fine trailers out there Harvey mentioned several, I did a lot of shopping around before I bought and a lot came down to what I like to do. I go off road to alpine lakes, in my decision I felt Arctic Fox fit best being a four season coach at a middle of the road price. Some of those fine trailers seemed to be best suited for full hook up style travels. The only time I use full hook ups is at May Madness. I saw trailers with fire places, ceiling fans, large tv and stereos that wouldn't work unless hooked up to shore power.

 

[Grizzly]

I know there are a lot of fine trailers out there Harvey mentioned several, I did a lot of shopping around before I bought and a lot came down to what I like to do. I go off road to alpine lakes, in my decision I felt Arctic Fox fit best being a four season coach at a middle of the road price. Some of those fine trailers seemed to be best suited for full hook up style travels. The only time I use full hook ups is at May Madness. I saw trailers with fire places, ceiling fans, large tv and stereos that wouldn't work unless hooked up to shore power.

I agree, If you're going to have all those amenities, you might as well stay home. I too have an AF.