any exercise gurus here...need advice

[mjendrejcak]

I been stuck for the past four weeks in chest development. No matter what I do in my routine I cannot seem to progress.



Typical Routine



3 sets 15 reps each set 80# pec deck as warm up

2 sets 8 reps pec dec 200#



3 sets 10 reps 85# dumbbells incline



3 sets 10 reps 95# dumbbells flat bench



3 sets 10 reps 75# decline bench



3 sets 10 reps flys (either flat or incline) 45#





I have tried decreasing reps increase weight but upon returning to original routine find I'm still stuck.





Any thoughts?

 

[fkovalski]

What are your overall goals? Obviously, it is to lift more- but what about your body weight goals? Stay the same, just re- proportion? increase or deacrease?

I would not get stuck on one area and would add the reverse of every exercise to your routine. i. e. add tricep kick as the reverse of your bicep curl. Or another example- do reverse flys to balance chest fly.

I typicaly do modified pyramid sets in lieu of (or as) my warmup and cool down. Example: (any typical exercise)

25lb / 25 reps

30lb/ 20 reps

35lb/ 15 reps

40lb/ 10 reps

45lb/ 8 reps

50lb/ failure (5-8)

25lb/ 25 reps

25lb/ 20 reps

25lb/ 15 reps

25lb/ 10 reps



This is what do for each routine regardless of day and in lieu of circuit training. Just my opinion of what works for me.

 

[athompson]

You're overtraining

Take a break. You'll be surprised what a week or two off can do.

 

[Hohn]

Athompson is right on. Most people (imho) work out too often, and not hard enough. For my Special Hi Intensity Training (S. H. I. T. ), I go until I have muscle failure.



Get away from the 3x10 rut. Try differing rep counts, and add weight. I also do like 12,10,8,6 going to failure on the 6 rep set. If I can actually complete the last set, I move up in weight. I go like 50% on the 12 rep warmup, and go up in weight for each set thereafter.



Make sure you are getting enough protein, too. Don't be afraid of the eggs!!



HOHN

 

[Rman]

Back when i "worked out" hard core i hit similar walls. Your muscles develop a memory for the work you do. Changing your routines is crucial for continuing development.



Reserve a day a week for a burnout day, thats what i called them. Have your spotter setup a bar with something like 5 10lb weights on each side. Do twenty reps and yank one off each side then do 20 more. Keep going until you've got just the bar and you arms and chest burns so bad you can't lift it. Keep doing them even if your spotter pretty much does all the work. You look like a complete fool screaming how bad it burns and your pressing up an empty bar... but believe me it works. Do this with varying exercises.



This is once a week thing, or perhaps once every 2 weeks, it really depends how far along in your "program" you are. Taking a week off completely in there will also help out. You body will adapt to whatever you do to it, keep throwing it curves and keep your muscles guessing.



I always found good old fashioned labor helped too. I would go out back and cut down a tree (with an axe) or dig a deep ditch, for a workout instead of weight training.



I don't pump wieghts anymore, after a serious arm injury and seeing how fast I lost what i had worked so hard to get, the prospect of doing it all over again was not appealing. I just play sports now and deal with being weaker and slower (I really just don't have the time to do it anymore).



Good luck and keep truckin.

 

[JPLB22]

mjendrejcak



I also agree with athompson. A break will help (1 to 2 weeks) I personally do a week once every 6-8 weeks. And I even think that you are over training the muscle with as many sets as you are doing ( I counted 18 ). I try to do not more than 9-12 sets per muscle group, and at the end of my workout I am totally used up. I think 9-12 sets per muscle group is plenty if you are intense enough ( ie: not too much rest between sets and going 100% )



I myself have hit many plateaus, and have broken through every one so far. I do one of two things, I change the workout or the supplement cycle. I also believe that you need a day of rest after every workout, that day is the time you really build on to the muscle. I used to work out 5 days a week, doing only one muscle group per day and doing about as many sets as you do. After 8 weeks I had obviously made progress but felt very tired all the time. I then cut it to four days a week and started to improve in size and weights. Then finally cut it back to 3 days a week and have seen my biggest improvements in size and looks, but a little drop in weights.



My workout schedual goes like this



1st week= 3 sets 8 reps on all muscle groups.



Monday= off day

Tuesday= Triceps, Biceps, half a Chest workout

Wednesday= off day

Thursday= Chest, Upper Back, half a Biceps workout

Friday= off day

Saturday= Shoulders, Legs, Lower Back

Sunday= off day



2nd week= 3 sets 12 reps on all muscle groups



Then repeat for 8 weeks and then a week off and a new workout schedual.



Sorry for being so lengthy, I just get excited when someone talks about weights.

 

[DWalts02]

I agree, you are overtraining your chest. A good rule of thumb to help keep yourself from doing this is stick to:



3 press type exercises and 2 flye exercises or 4 presses 3 flyes.



Has worked good for me and also try to do a set of flyes first and let your chest get a little spent and then move to a couple of presses, really helps to get that burn going and muscle building. Hope this helps a little.

 

[mjendrejcak]

Everyone thanks for the sound advice. I overbooked on work the next two to three weeks so I guess that will force me into some downtime. I have tried changing my routine but not enough from the suggestions here. I will try detuning my schedule.





I used to use this routine and more for all muscle groups before a serious mountain bike accident that just about totaled my hip, shoulder and both wrist. Maybe my body is now older and more decrepit than my mind thinks.







Again thanks for the advice, I'll try it and see what happens in a couple of months.



Mike

 

[Jeff Clark]

I wouldn't say that your workload is overtraining b/c I do more than that each week and I'm still making progress. What you didn't mention is how many timmes you do that routine (once a week, twice a week, every day, etc... ) Assuming you are training chest only once a week, your fine. You just need to manipulate the weights and reps to find a happy medium where you start to make progress. If you are training chest more than once a week, that's too much.



Right now I start chest day (after warmup) with flat barbell bench press. I keep the reps at 8 with 4 sets. Each week I increase the weight by 5 lbs. I am able to keep the reps the same. The other stuff I do changes each week, but I keep a journal so I know what weight and reps I used last time so I can make sure I do more.

 

[Idaho CTD]

The last time I trained for big gains I used a personal trainer for a day a week. What he had me do was to change the number of reps every 6-8weeks. For example: One stretch would be 18-20reps/set for every lift I did. The next 6-8 weeks I would do 10-12 reps/set and the third stretch I would do 6-8 reps/set. All my lifts were for 3 sets and typically I would change my lifts (different exercise for the same muscle group) every 6-8 week cycle.



All in all I have recieved the best gains ever using this method and never became stagnant on any of my lifts. The high rep sets kinda suck because you feel like a weakling doing only about 70% of your normal lifts but when you cut the reps in half it is a big change. I also think it help keep your flexibility.



Good Luck

Nathan

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Can You guys recommend a good weight lifting belt? They come in 2 sizes. 4 ¾" and 6".



I pulled or strained my lower back yesterday doing paralell squats on the Smith machine. I had 180 on the bar with probably fair/bad form. I does not hurt too much now but it scared me at first.



I am going back to the "cage" w/ lighter weight.

 

[athompson]

I use a 6" belt, but only for the heavy sets. If you strained your back with 180 lbs you need to strengthen your truck (abs and lower back).

 

[HEMI®Dart]

athompson,



180# was the heaviest I had done to date. 20# more than usual. I go all the way down too. I have been doing weighted (10#) sit-ups for about 3 months, 3-4 sets of 35. Lots of guys don't train their legs it seems. From what I have read and heard you need to work your lower body to gain strength and size in your upper body. I strongly believe this. Even with my whopping 8 months weight training experience.

 

[athompson]

Originally posted by HEMI®Dart

athompson,



Lots of guys don't train their legs it seems. From what I have read and heard you need to work your lower body to gain strength and size in your upper body. I strongly believe this. Even with my whopping 8 months weight training experience.

You're right. A good lower body workout can stimulate whole body growth. My point was really to not rely on the belt. You need to strengthen the lower back and abs, too.



On the other hand, to properly work the lower body need to protect the back. Hey, I use hooks for my heavy pulling sets, too.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Listen to what I did at the Gym Saturday

The last exercise I usually do is Calf Raises. I use the machine where the weight is on your shoulders and you step on the bar with the ball of your foot. I didn't warm up w/ lower weight (never do on calves) I jammed the pin at the very bottom of the weight stack like I always do (415 lbs. ) I went to do the first rep and SNAP!!!. Right Calf felt like somebody whacked it with a baseball bat! I literally turned around an looked to see if someone did. I thought and it felt like I tore my right calf muscle in half! It scared the hell out of me. Startled me more than anything. I have never felt anything like that before. I hobbled out of the gym cringing in pain.



My Mother drove me to the Walk-in Medical clinic (only thing open). They really didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. Elevate & apply moist heat and take Alleve. I am limping big time now.



I did more research on Calf injuries when I got home . It looks like if I snapped the Achilles Tendon I would not be able to climb stairs or stand on the toes. I can do both.



I think the calf muscles were tight and I know they were "cold"



I NEVER, EVER want this to happen again. It was not pleasant.



I found these Calf stretches: http://tms.ecol.net/fitness/calfstr.htm



What would be the best way to warm up the calf's so this won't happen again?

 

[athompson]

HEMI, I can relate

However, when I tore my calf, it was working with 800 lbs (one leg), and on my third set. I had just finished with my weaker calf and on the second rep with my stronger calf. I felt it tearing all the way down. Believe me, I know what you're feeling.



The ironic thing was that I had been doing this weight (and more) for several weeks and hadn't even gotten to the heavy weight yet. They were the last exercises I was doing on leg day so my calves were fully warmed up. Injuries can happen any time, that's way you need a spotter at all times. Just imagine your Pec tearing without a spotter.



After seeing the GP, it took about two weeks to get into the Specialist. Thankfully, he confirmed it was "just" a muscle tear. It took another four weeks of stretching to get where calf wouldn't stiffen up while sitting at work.



As for warming up, I start with squats on leg day. One set at about 30-40% one rep max for about 12-15 reps. I bump the weight up to about 50% one rep max for about 12-15 reps. Then I start with the actual working sets. By the time I get to my calves, I've 3 working sets of squats, leg presses, stiff legged deadlifts, leg curls, and seated calf raises. And my calf still tore!

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Thanks for the reply athompson.



Your Calves must be as big as my thighs. 800lbs on 1 leg is insane.



I knew plural for calf was'nt calfs. I did'nt look right. Thanks for correcting me.



This stupid injury has made me real gun-shy/nervous now about using the heavy weight. Especially since I don't have a spotter when benching. That is gonna change. I am going to warm up every muscle group throughly even if it adds another 1/2 hour to a workout and just hope I don't tear anything else.



It seems a person never will suffer an injury using light weight. You won't gain anything either.



I have had terrific gains in the 8 months I have lifted. I want to keep going. I think some of the problem is I train like an 18 year old, and forget a have a 40 year old body.

 

[GSaltzman]

Slow Down!

Yes, you could be overtraining. One thing being overlooked is your diet. If you are not eating to gain strength and size it wont happen. You also need to make sure you get some rest to be able to let your body recoup. I think it would help you to start with your power movements first. That is after you warm up do your flat benches first. That is a power movement. Here how I worked my routine when training. After warm up 3 sets of flat benches. Either pyramiding up in weight or I would start heavy and have to work down. I would then go to incline press and do the same. I would alternate between peck deck and flat flyes. I would never do more than 12 sets for chest not including any warmup. Everyone will differ in how they respond so you have to try things out to find what's best for you. I for one found that excessive forced reps did not help me gain. I had a training partner that wanted to do forced reps all the time. He would never gain any muscle. He was overtraining. Keep in mind that it takes a while for the chest muscles to develop that full look. Try doing 12 sets for your large muscle groups and 9 sets for your smaller muscle groups. Take a little time off and start fresh. Good luck!

 

[mjendrejcak]

well I borrowed a little of everyones advice here and came up with this.



Diet is typically



Breakfast 3 to 5 whole eggs and a ‘power bar’

8 oz mike and OJ.



Mid day snack

One can of tuna fish and ‘power bar’



Lunch

Turkey breast sandwich on hard roll with lettuce and tomato

Yogurt and ‘power bar’

32 oz Gatorade





Diner

12 to 16 oz steak

Baked potatoes or brown rice

Salad

Yogurt



Workout



Snack 32 oz Gatorade and ‘power bar’





Changed workout to



1. Each workout should last approximately 30 to 40 minutes.

2. Train only 1 or 2 muscle groups per workout/day.

3. Do 6 to 9 total heavy sets per muscle group.

4. Do 4 to 6 reps per set.

5. Rest 2 to 3 minutes between sets. (STR)

6. Train each muscle group once every 5 to 7 days. (ITR)

7. Take a 1-week break from training every 8 to 10 weeks.

8. Only train Monday through Friday.





I now have a flat bench of 135# dumbbells for 4 reps.







Thanks for the advice

 

[Cooker]

mjendrejcak,

Sounds like you are off on the right foot. Seeing how you posted this in the forum I am guess you are open to a few comments especially if the possibility exist that they can help you with your physical fitness goals.



I'm just curious what kind of "power bar" are you eating. I see you put it in quotes so I assume you are not referring to the actual brand "Power Bar".



You definitely need to ingest more after your workout. Your body is very "hungy" for nutrients after your train. I would recommend an easy to digest and a relatively light calorie Protein Shake. Try to drink it within 30-45 minutes after your workout.



I don't know what your snack consist of, I assume it is not very rich in protein. If not the protein shake is even more crucial after your workout. It will give you a 5th protein meal for the day.



As far as your training regime, everyone responds differently to different stimuli. Personally I prefer a workout to last about an hour to 1. 25 hours. I have a hard time getting what I need out of a shorter workout.



4-6 reps per set it just a touch low in my opinion. I would strive for 7-9 reps per set. If you can do 10 add weight. If you can't do 7 drop a few pounds. This seems to be a good range for alot of people training for size. If you are purely training for strength, 4-6 may be more appropriate.



Monday though Friday is purely a matter of personal preference. It is easy to plan around because the weekends easily get too packed up with other things. Whatever works for you. I would say that I would not recommend you train more than 2 days in a row.



One other suggestion, make sure you are drinking plenty of H20 and I would start drinking your last gatorade of the day just bfore your workout and sip it though your training session. Your body can use it more during your training than after you have worked out already.



These are just my opinions, take them for what they are worth as everyone has a different approach to things. Best of luck achieving your goals.