Any, "good" factory VE' fuel pumps?

[NIsaacs]

Are there any good or better VE' pumps over just run of the mill replacements for the 1st Gen. I am talking just stock factory type recon's. I have noticed a big difference in my 91' Dodge vs my 90' CTD powered Ford. My Dodge has CPL#1351, 160hp/400tq Ford is CPL#856, 180hp/457tq. Factory spec's of 280 ft. lbs. clutch engagement torque "Dodge" vs 330 ft. lbs. for the Ford. Is most of the difference just in the pump or does the Camshaft play a part? The Ford is very responsive on take off, kinda like the 24v, where as the Dodge is sluggish, needs some throttle input. Factory timing of 1. 25mm for the Dodge, 1. 15mm for the Ford. The Dodge likes more RPM than the Ford. The Ford pump responds about the same with 1/4 turn on fuel screw as the Dodge does with 1 complete turn. So is the Ford pump, like bigger than the Dodge somehow? The Ford has factory injectors, the Dodge has 50hp Bully Dogs, not sure what they compare with. Thanks for any and all "secret info"





"NICK"

 

[Buffalo]

Sluggish 91.5 Dodge P/U

Hi Nick,



I don't know if this will help you, or not, but my 91. 5 W-250 was a "lead-sled" until I fixed it. As you probably know, Dodge made quite a few changes in the 91. 5. They went from an 18sqcm turbo housing to a 21 sqcm housing. The "21" lasted only a year because of so many complaints regarding unacceptable turbo lag. They called them, affectionately, the "dog diesels".



I went to a 16sqcm housing, which, can be purchased for about $150. 00. It made a world of difference. Really woke the truck up.



Previous to that, I had turned the power screw in, twice. First time, by the dealer after my complaints about low power. That cost me over $100. 00 with a dyno run to determine that the power was just one HP over the minimum point at which they would have had to turn it up on their dime. That helped just a little bit. Entering a freeway, you noticed slightly more acceleration.



The second time, I had Chuck's Speed Center, in Phoenix, mill off part of the limiting band on the screw so that it could be turned in even further. That, also, helped just slightly. None of these two mods had anywhere near the effect that the 16sqcm turbo had.



Later, I heard about Diesel Performance Center, Inc. , 4014 West Van Buren St. , Phoenix, AZ. 85009, 602-269-5043. They told me that they could "re-calibrate" my pump, off the truck on a machine dedicated to that pump. That made a BIG difference. Equal to what the 16sqcm turbo housing did. Quite a bit more smoke but, lots more power. The trucks really fun to drive, now.



Before these mods, my maximum boost was 15 lbs. , on a 30 lb. Isspro guage. With a K&N filter in the stock housing, I could slam the needle against the limiting post (30lb. ) on the boost guage. Don't really know what the actual boost was but, probably in the 35lb. range.



I have since removed the K&N and gone back to stock, paper element filters due to the K&N letting way too much dirt in. The boost has suffered a bit. Maximum boost, now, is 25 lbs. The trucks performance still feels good, though.



Anyway, I hope some of this helps you out.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[DBF]

Buffalo is right on. The 16cm2 hot end is a real wake-it-up and inexpensive mod. That and pump-tweaks took my CPL1351 from stock 130rwhp to around 170. Another is to put the so-called "3200rpm Governor Spring" into the VE pump so you can run up to 3,000 rpm or so.



Your sig doesn't say whether you have an auto trans or not. If you do, a better torque converter than the slushy thing Dodge used will also do wonders. You'll have to crank up some valve body pressures to hold things together after doing this, but the results are great.



I have the specs book on the VE pump. Many different part numbers were used because the various applications used different pump settings according to what the builders wanted. They were used in farm tractors, electric-generating apps, truck yard tractors, airplane tractors, just all sorts of things - each with its own timing settings and internal differences.



DBF

 

[NIsaacs]

Thanks Joe & DBF, yes the #16 is a good up grade on the 1st Gen. which I have done. I have no complaints on how the truck runs, it's a 5-spd w/3. 54's. I bought it new, in late 1991 and have put 293,000 miles on it. Other then the fuel mods, it is mostly original. It's just that the fuel pump takes some major screw turning to equal the same response as the Ford pump. It just seems like that, the internal pieces & parts are "smaller" or something vs the Ford. I have turned up the pump on several 1st Gen. trucks with the same results, major tweeks vs the Ford to get the same power. It is not just my Ford, but other CPL # 600 and 856 engines that I have messed with, they all "seem" more responsive. The biggest difference is the off idle power, The Dodge needs some throttle to move the truck, the Ford does not. Even with a load the Ford will take off in 2nd gear with no throttle, the internal govenor will not let it stall. It just seems like the Ford pump is bigger or better somehow.





"NICK"

 

[DBF]

Are there any good or better VE' pumps over just run of the mill replacements for the 1st Gen. I am talking just stock factory type recon's. I have noticed a big difference in my 91' Dodge vs my 90' CTD powered Ford. My Dodge has CPL#1351, 160hp/400tq Ford is CPL#856, 180hp/457tq. Factory spec's of 280 ft. lbs. clutch engagement torque "Dodge" vs 330 ft. lbs. for the Ford. Is most of the difference just in the pump or does the Camshaft play a part?





"NICK"

Interesting. The Cummins Master Repair Manual for Injection Pumps and Injectors shows ratings for the 6BTA with VE pump all the way from 118hp/342tq to 180hp/455tq. Timing is all over the place and doesn't correlate with power (ex: one 180hp CPL is timed at 1. 15mm and another is timed at 2. 05mm).



My guess is that they work together (pump, cam & probably compression ratio) to produce the different ratings.



Any pump experts in this forum?



DBF

 

[Paychk]

I bet injectors and the turbos come in to play along with the above items.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

My Bosch guy in Las Vegas routinely turns up the VE moderately when building one.