Any one see the Ambassador for Japan "DEMANDING" on TV?

[Chad Sheets]

Just got the tail end of a news clip at work. This guy was DEMANDING we raise than boat that got sunk by the sub. I would love to tell him that as soon as his country raises the Arizona, we will talk about their fishing boat.

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[Idaho Native]

Chad,

Agreed... wish I could say more but you'll have to see my profile to see why I must remain silent for the near term!! #ad


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(Too Many Toys

 

[Chad Sheets]

Outstanding, Sir! #ad
What do you fly? I was aircrew for CH-53D/E. I had an Uncle retire (E9) from the Air Force, and had an Aunt who was an Officer (O?)in the Womans Air Corps way back when.

I almost got selected to fly Blackhawks for the Army, until I got a retinal detachment... that was the end of that. They were taking Marine NCO's who were already helicopter Aircrew and running them through their program and making them Warrant Officers. Glad to see a fellow armed service man on the page.

 

[Idaho Native]

I'm currently doing my paper-pusher job as self-loading on the E-4B, which is a Boeing 747-200 retrofitted as a communications platform.

I leave this job in May and move to the cockpit of the E-4 #ad


17 years of service and still having fun... sticking it out until 20 or so. Detached retinas suck! They'll end an aviation quicker than you can say &^%$

TDR member since Jan of 01 but have had the truck since Nov 98 and love it dearly!! I'm a closet gear head... subsequently not many of my compadres at work can relate to my passion! One other guy there is a TDR member and that's how I found out about the site. I started a new thread on the 24V Engine table tonight... heater grid problem cured thanks to him!!

Later

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1995 Impala SS, Dark Cherry Metallic
1995 Dutchmen 26 foot travel trailer (the reason for the diesel!!)
1997 Honda Shadow ACE 1100
(Too Many Toys

 

[Sled Puller]

I reckon that was a spy boat anyway. If not, it has probably stole fish from our waters and broke international rules somewhere along the line.
If the US EVER started demanding countrys pay up for their crimes and debt against us, we would be in pretty good shape.
One of my favorite sayings?
"You'll have that on the big jobs. "

 

[Chad Sheets]

You said a mouthfull with the spy stuff. People have a hard time with that fact. I would if I had not witnessed it first hand. While in North Carolina, we had to be careful of what was said before a deployment over the phone. The Russians and Japaneese had fishing boats equiped with enough electronic listening devices to open a portable Radio Shack. Pretty wild.

 

[JConley]

I wanted to fly for the ARMY, since I am a pilot in the civilian world, and in the ARMY. I choose Aviation for my branch in OCS, and I discovered how color blind I am during the flight physical. So much for the aviation careen in the ARMY #ad
Oh well, I still get to fly every now and then in the Blackhawks #ad


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My Ram
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[Chad Sheets]

c #ad
#ad
l!!!!

 

[illflem]

Just heard today that they are blaming the collision on the fact that the sub was running late for a dinner engagement,sounds like one of my excuses.

 

[Royal]

Chad,they are also demanding a apology from the USA. I say OK, after they apologize for Pearl Harbour,Battan Death march ,etc,etc.

[This message has been edited by Royal (edited 03-09-2001). ]

 

[The patriot]

A fellow worker's Dad is Commander of the Stennis.
He tells me that the sub was supposed to raise the scope before surfacing. (obviously only during drills, not in combat)
I aint making excuses for the Japs acting in such a disrespectful way, but somebody didnt follow SOP and *f*ed up, be it military, contractor or civilian.
Eric
PS I think we've been providing military services for Japan since WW2. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on this)
Maybe it's time they take care of themselves.



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NRA life member. High power/IDPA.

 

[Max340]

While I don't agree with the demand that we raise the "fishing" boat, I think its time the issue of Pearl Harbor was gotten past as an issue of division and remains clear as a reminder. To the point, if you don't think two atomic bombs were retribution enough for the attack on Pearl Harbor, its time to step back and see the real picture.

The real insult isn't Pearl Harbor, but the fact that we spent millions to rebuild their economy and are banned from many of their markets from competing. That is another issue entirely.

As to the latest incident, I have no doubt that the fishing vessel was in questionable waters and possibly there for questionable reasons. But its also clear that someone on the U. S. submarine screwed up. I heard a report that the scope was raised and all was clear. Obviously not. Secondly, what was the sonar operator listening to? If in fact he heard nothing, this supports the conclusion that the fishing vessel was fishing for more than tuna. But a sonar system that hears shrimp miles away should be able to hear a hull slipping through the water. Obviously there are mitigating circumstances given the drill being performed. However, it seems to me in a practice routine, due caution to check for nearby vessels prior to the drill was in order.

What seems to escape many here is the fact that the two cultures are clearly clashing over tradition more than anything else. This does not excuse the Japanese reaction. But it does not merit vengeful remarks about Pearl Harbor either.

In short, if you want to sit there and claim we are the better of the two nations in this situation, you are not only on questionable ground given the evidence, but also acting in a manner that does not support that conclusion.



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[Koa Man]

Some facts on the sub/fish boat accident. The Ehime Maru was a high school training ship for students learning how to be commercial fishermen, I seriously doubt it was a spy ship. The sub performed a practice emergency ascent to demonstrate its abilities to 16 civilians on board, all crowded into the sub's control room along with the crew. This was done 9 miles off shore in the middle of a travel corridor heavily used by commercial and pleasure craft heading into Waikiki and Honolulu Harbor. My opinion is that the sub's crew had no business performing this manuver in a travel corridor. I have a friend who was in the Navy 23 years. 20 years on a sub, the last 5 years as the dive officer. He said he never heard of such a thing happening in all his years in the Navy and he could not understand how such a thing could have happened. The sub's crew screwed up big time and all this talk about Pearl Harbor and Bataan etc, well, like the song says, War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing. The U. S. has done a lot of atrocities also. My Lai in Vietnam and a similar incident in the Korean War.

As far as the US providing defense for Japan, one of the conditions the US put on Japan after WWII was that they COULD NOT have a military except for a token self defense force. The US occupied Japan for years to make sure the terms of the surrender treaty were followed. Currently Japan is trying to get the US out, but Okinawa is too valuable a base for the US to give up.

Bottom line is the sub's crew screwed up and just compensation should be made. Think of it this way, if you were driving with your family on the main highway (the water travel corridor) and some idiot in an SUV (the sub) came barreling on to the highway from a dirt road (from underwater) and broadsided your car (the Ehime Maru) and killed your kids (the 9 missing students and teachers) how would you feel???

This tragedy happened right off the waters of the island I live on, and the intensity of this incident is much higher here. The investigation is still making the front pages of the newspapers here.

 

[The patriot]

KOA Man,I stand corrected on this point.
I still think if they had to pay the $$$ we did (we put the USSR out of business) for our military, Okinawa would be a good deal to have the biggest kid on the block on your side.
I'm sure the Japanese people feel otherwise, as I'm sure I would if I were in their shoes.
I still think this was an accident, and demands will not be beneficial to those making them. Their diplomats should be more diplomatic. Theyre not dealing with a terrorist state like Lybia, Iran or Iraq. If investigations show it WAS the sub's fault, we will reach a monitary settlement. Sounds cold, but that's the way thinks work.
Eric

 

[Koa Man]

Eric,
I agree with you that you can get more from someone if you ask nicely instead of demanding. I also know that the United States WILL make a fair and just compensation to the families of those injured and killed and for the lost of the vessel. It is just too bad that poor judgement was exercised in basically "showing off" what a fast attack nuclear sub was capable of doing. As more details of this incident are being uncovered by the Navy's Court of Inquiry investigation currently being held at Pearl Harbor, and the details of which are being reported on the local news, more and more you can see the sub's crew just screwed up big time.

 

[Chad Sheets]

The guy screwed up hard and he knows it, the Navy knows it as well. I think we are all in agreance on that. Patriot said it best. We are not some terrorist nation that makes a habbit out of screwing other countries over. We screwed up and we will pay the price. No need to get the Ambassador from Japan on every National News station demanding anything. It was an accident, not something that was planned out by heads of state in secret meetings in order to intice a nation into war.

One thing I am wanting to know is, who ok'd these "civies" to be on board? This guy that was in charge had to get higher up permision or orders to get them on board. I dont care if youre Bill Gates, you cant just flash some cash to the Capitain and get on board for a ride. A detailed roster must be sent in to "higher ups" showing them every person on board. You also must have a security clearance in order to go on board as well. Theres more to this than we are hearing about.

 

[weber1048]

Gentleman
Having spent 8 1/2 yrs and made 9 FBM patrols, I would like to put my . 02 in.
SOP is to come to scpoe depth 58 ft, and do a 360 sweep on the scope and also do a sweep with sonar, now sonar is only listening (passive) and there are dead spots (baffels). In the area they were you would also thing that a radar search would also be done.

At least the scope and sonar sweeps were done. Then the boat dove to 400 ft and reversed course. Now enter the 45 min extra lunch intervel. The Japaneese boat was recorded as traveling at 30 knots. So it will travel a good distance in the time from the look see and the long lunch to the collision point.

The ship should have been brought up for another look see, since the time frame had made the first one obsolete. But there is going to be a time frame from any look see till the sub can get to 400 ft and reverse course and get everyone ready. Now when you blow the tanks with HP air the ship becones bouyant and starts accelerating to the surface. On broaching she is doing 20+ Knots and remember this is a 380 foot long and about one quarter of her hull is going to come flying out of the water. A very impressive sight.

According to the last news that I have seen,a fire control tech who was to keep tract of targets and to inform the diving officer/Capt was not/did not (because the civilians were in the way). This man was not doing his job. But there was/is enough blame to go around on this incedident

 

[The patriot]

Thank you Weber. Sorry Amiantus, I guess I didnt make my statement very clear, as I was never on one.
Chad:
On occasion, civilians are allowed on military vessels, aircraft, etc, because I guess they just have to see things like the people who run them do. I suppose there are instances when a problem or glitch cannot be duplicated in a lab too. These people have been only described as "civilians", so I dunno. A contractor might have a legit reason to be on one. IMO just regular civilians dont belong there. (but if I was ever asked if I'd like to go out for a ride, I will not say NO #ad
)
Doing these manuvers in a heavily traffic area is just poor judgement on the Commanding Officers part.

Eric
Oh BTW Amianthus, Stennis is a flat top. http://www.cvn74.navy.mil/



[This message has been edited by The patriot (edited 03-10-2001). ]

 

[Amianthus]

Patriot,
Please take no offense to this, but tell your co-worker's dad he is wrong about the putting the scope up before surfacing thing. On a normal surface that is what they do. But on an emergency surface, putting the scope up would cause it to snap right off the sub. The ascent speed is to high and causes too much stress on the scope.
Incidentally, what type of ship does he command anyway? I've never heard of that Sub (if it is one).
I will have to agree with Koa Man. They shouldn't have been doing that maneuver in a shipping lane. In my opinion, they were hot-dogging. It looks pretty cool to see a sub blow open the roof like that. And nothing scares surface vessels more than to do that right next to them (relatively speaking). But screwing around like that is an invitation to incidents like what just happened. Retribution, would be the ethical thing to do. But who knows how this will all end up. Some poor enlisted puke will probably take all the heat for this and wind up in Club FED, and the officers will be forced to resign thier commissions (oh, my).
But hey, this is the kind of training and people we paid for in the Clinton Navy. What did you expect?

 

[Chad Sheets]

I worked on HMX-1 helicopters for a while. This is the green and white ones you see the President landing in, "Marine 1". You had to have a security clearance to work on one and be a crew member. Every person who goes up in one of those things is logged in and verified before so, and has to be approved by someone else. I knew of a good mechanic who was turned down to work on them because he had illegal aliens in his immediate family, and this would not pass the security test. Heck, over 75% of the Marines who qualified to apply to HMX-1 were shot down because they had traffic tickets within the last 2 years.