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any solution for vibration?
- Thread starter cpizz
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With the axle disconnect now gone, the front shaft spins at full speed all the time. If you look at the caster, it is on the high side to handle good and track straight. You can remove a little caster and it should help, but don't take too much out or you could introduce handling problems. It would appear there is a fine line between enough caster and too much caster.
Mine's a 4X2. I put the rear axle on jack stands and ran it up to 67mph. It vibrates the same as it does on the road. 45mph almost unnoticable. 55mph is a slight pulsating vibration. 67mph is enough to blur the image in the rearview mirror. 50, 60 and 70mph are smooth. Mechanic said it's normal. Service writer agrees it's not normal. Said he would contact Chrysler and call me yesterday afternoon. He didn't call. I'm starting to regret trading my flawless (literally) 2001. 5 for this truck over a simple vibration.
I'll give them credit though. They re-balanced the tires twice for a driveline vibration, damaged a rim, replaced it and used a rubber valve stem to match the other three steel valve stems.
It doesn't seems like it would be this complicated.
I'll give them credit though. They re-balanced the tires twice for a driveline vibration, damaged a rim, replaced it and used a rubber valve stem to match the other three steel valve stems.
It doesn't seems like it would be this complicated.
Finally fixed my vibration problem after 2 months of going back and forth to the dealer. After replacing driveshafts, tires, wheels, and even the transfer case, the dealer declared it was normal. I went ballistic on them so they decided to bring in reinforcements, the Regional D/C Manager. Boy was I scared. 
cpizz... you are absolutely right, they don't know much about these trucks. And they don't know how to solve more than one problem at a time. My truck had two problems that ultimately caused the vibration. One was terrible driveline angles (I had zero cancellation), and the other was a poor fit between the t-case extension housing and the driveshaft (e. g. 0 degree operating angle).
The dealer adjusted the angles and when that didn't completely solve the problem they actually took the shims back out! When they replaced the t-case, the vibration got better but not acceptable. They then declared it was "normal". Never once did they consider re-adjusting the driveline angles AFTER replacing the t-case.
They even brought an identical truck from another dealership to "show me that it was normal". Well, that backfired on them because I made them put the EVA (electronic vibration analyzer) on both trucks and compare them side-by-side. Mine was 3 times worse!
I spent about 12 hours last weekend reading through the manual, and reading every piece of information I could find on the web about driveline angles. I then borrowed a digital protractor from work and started examining my own driveline angles. After lots and lots of measuring and thinking, I dropped the center support bearing a full 1/2 inch and added a 2 degree shim between the spring pack and axle. Cost me $9. 99 for the shims.
It's a shame. This is work the dealer should have been able to accomplish.
Now I'm happy as a pig in a puddle and all I have is a slight tickle in my right toe at 68 mph. Probably engine vibration. The infinity speakers are the only thing shaking me now. Just the way I like it!
Sag2... don't take any I've said here about my experience with my dealer personally. I know that you have solved the vibration problem on at least one truck and your information helped me solve my problems. Keep up the good work. Also, I think you're right on with your comment to cpizz about the caster. I would just add that the front driveline has a CV joint, so the front pinion shaft needs to point straight along the axis of the driveshaft.
If anyone would like any more information feel free to PM me and I'll give you all the bookmarks I have for good information and I'll share everything I learned while working on my truck.
cpizz... you are absolutely right, they don't know much about these trucks. And they don't know how to solve more than one problem at a time. My truck had two problems that ultimately caused the vibration. One was terrible driveline angles (I had zero cancellation), and the other was a poor fit between the t-case extension housing and the driveshaft (e. g. 0 degree operating angle).
The dealer adjusted the angles and when that didn't completely solve the problem they actually took the shims back out! When they replaced the t-case, the vibration got better but not acceptable. They then declared it was "normal". Never once did they consider re-adjusting the driveline angles AFTER replacing the t-case.
They even brought an identical truck from another dealership to "show me that it was normal". Well, that backfired on them because I made them put the EVA (electronic vibration analyzer) on both trucks and compare them side-by-side. Mine was 3 times worse!
I spent about 12 hours last weekend reading through the manual, and reading every piece of information I could find on the web about driveline angles. I then borrowed a digital protractor from work and started examining my own driveline angles. After lots and lots of measuring and thinking, I dropped the center support bearing a full 1/2 inch and added a 2 degree shim between the spring pack and axle. Cost me $9. 99 for the shims.
It's a shame. This is work the dealer should have been able to accomplish.
Now I'm happy as a pig in a puddle and all I have is a slight tickle in my right toe at 68 mph. Probably engine vibration. The infinity speakers are the only thing shaking me now. Just the way I like it!
Sag2... don't take any I've said here about my experience with my dealer personally. I know that you have solved the vibration problem on at least one truck and your information helped me solve my problems. Keep up the good work. Also, I think you're right on with your comment to cpizz about the caster. I would just add that the front driveline has a CV joint, so the front pinion shaft needs to point straight along the axis of the driveshaft.
If anyone would like any more information feel free to PM me and I'll give you all the bookmarks I have for good information and I'll share everything I learned while working on my truck.
My truck vibrates enough to shake the rearview mirror, as mentioned earlier. Cars all look like they have 4 lights on. I assumed this was "normal" for the truck & road conditions around here.
PCline, you've got me very interested. Please remind me of your truck configuration (2500/3500, SRW/DRW, LWB/SWB). Did the problem get better/worse with a load (how heavy)? It'd be great if these shims were typical to all trucks like yours. Even better if DC covered it under warranty (I'll just pull my head out of my butt, now
).
Thanks HUGE for your persistance & input for the rest of us.
PCline, you've got me very interested. Please remind me of your truck configuration (2500/3500, SRW/DRW, LWB/SWB). Did the problem get better/worse with a load (how heavy)? It'd be great if these shims were typical to all trucks like yours. Even better if DC covered it under warranty (I'll just pull my head out of my butt, now
). Thanks HUGE for your persistance & input for the rest of us.
boonsur... my truck configuration is shown in the signature below.
I think driveline vibration could occur on any of our trucks regardless of configuration. The one exception is that a 4X4 could be slightly more prone to driveline vibration simply because it has two driveshafts that are always turning.
The front driveshaft has a CV joint in it. So therefore the front pinion and the front driveshaft have to lie in the same axis. That is why I had to move the center support bearing rather than the rear t-case mount. I didn't want to screw up my front driveline geometry. This page has a good picture of what that should look like (3rd picture down I think).
http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.html
The page was written for a lifted 4X4 but the physics are all the same.
The rear driveline is a 2 piece driveline (not sure, but I think this is true regardless of truck configuration). The front half of this driveline must come straight out of the t-case (or transmission if 4X2). The front half must have zero operating angle at the t-case so that it will turn at a constant velocity. I had to drop my center support bearing to accomplish this.
The rear half has to have equal operating angles at the front and rear joints. I had to add 2 degrees of angle at the axle to make this happen.
Below is a picture from the service manual that I have marked up with comments. This picture is actually somewhat misleading because it identifies the driveshaft yoke at the front. This should really be the yoke closest to the t-case (or transmission). I think the mechanic working on my truck didn't truly understand what needed to be accomplished.
The problem can get better or worse with load. It can also be better or worse when accelerating or decelerating. Each of these conditions affects primarily the operating angle at the axle. If it cause the operating angle to differ too much from the angle at the center support bearing then you poor cancellation and vibration.
Here's how it works. When there is a load the suspension "squats" and changes operating angle at the axle. This could be good or bad depending on your original angles. When accelerating or decelerating the applied torque causes axle wrap. This axle wrap affects the operating angle at the axle. This is sometimes referred to as "launch shudder".
Coincidentally, my truck had launch shudder and I mistakenly attributed it to the anti-spin. Fixing my angle got rid of the lauch shudder too.
I think driveline vibration could occur on any of our trucks regardless of configuration. The one exception is that a 4X4 could be slightly more prone to driveline vibration simply because it has two driveshafts that are always turning.
The front driveshaft has a CV joint in it. So therefore the front pinion and the front driveshaft have to lie in the same axis. That is why I had to move the center support bearing rather than the rear t-case mount. I didn't want to screw up my front driveline geometry. This page has a good picture of what that should look like (3rd picture down I think).
http://www.4xshaft.com/driveline101.html
The page was written for a lifted 4X4 but the physics are all the same.
The rear driveline is a 2 piece driveline (not sure, but I think this is true regardless of truck configuration). The front half of this driveline must come straight out of the t-case (or transmission if 4X2). The front half must have zero operating angle at the t-case so that it will turn at a constant velocity. I had to drop my center support bearing to accomplish this.
The rear half has to have equal operating angles at the front and rear joints. I had to add 2 degrees of angle at the axle to make this happen.
Below is a picture from the service manual that I have marked up with comments. This picture is actually somewhat misleading because it identifies the driveshaft yoke at the front. This should really be the yoke closest to the t-case (or transmission). I think the mechanic working on my truck didn't truly understand what needed to be accomplished.
The problem can get better or worse with load. It can also be better or worse when accelerating or decelerating. Each of these conditions affects primarily the operating angle at the axle. If it cause the operating angle to differ too much from the angle at the center support bearing then you poor cancellation and vibration.
Here's how it works. When there is a load the suspension "squats" and changes operating angle at the axle. This could be good or bad depending on your original angles. When accelerating or decelerating the applied torque causes axle wrap. This axle wrap affects the operating angle at the axle. This is sometimes referred to as "launch shudder".
Coincidentally, my truck had launch shudder and I mistakenly attributed it to the anti-spin. Fixing my angle got rid of the lauch shudder too.
Hey guys, thanks for all your help! I hope I can educate the service manager enough to solve this problem. I am waiting on a ring & pinion set (front axle) before I go back in. They said this is where some of the vibration is coming from. Apparently the teeth are not hitting squarely or flush with each other. They think it is warped. I hope this has not caused damage to other parts by being out of alignment!
Steve M.
My 4X2 has a vibration, it started about 50 and slightly increased up to about 70 and then stayed about the same, the dealer took it to the local Good year store, they rebalanced all 6 tires and had to rotate all of them on the rims.
Now it's worse, starts about 60 and gets worse up to 80 and is about 50 % worse than before.
Today, they took it to another Good year store in Jackson TN and they say 5 tires need to be replaced, no information as to the "problem" with them, but, there are not replacement tires available and they are trying to locate them.
I found this out about 5pm this afternoon and will have to talk to the dealer tomorrow to see what the story is with getting new tires, they'll get something for me or Dodge can take a set off another truck for them
Allen
03 3500 DRW LB HO 6sp 3. 73 White Sport Laramie Quad Cab
My 4X2 has a vibration, it started about 50 and slightly increased up to about 70 and then stayed about the same, the dealer took it to the local Good year store, they rebalanced all 6 tires and had to rotate all of them on the rims.
Now it's worse, starts about 60 and gets worse up to 80 and is about 50 % worse than before.
Today, they took it to another Good year store in Jackson TN and they say 5 tires need to be replaced, no information as to the "problem" with them, but, there are not replacement tires available and they are trying to locate them.
I found this out about 5pm this afternoon and will have to talk to the dealer tomorrow to see what the story is with getting new tires, they'll get something for me or Dodge can take a set off another truck for them
Allen
03 3500 DRW LB HO 6sp 3. 73 White Sport Laramie Quad Cab
ALS, I wish we could ride in each other's trucks to compare the type of vibration we're feeling. Mine starts at around 45 with a slight "yum yum yum" vibration. At 55 it's a little worse but the same pulsating type vibration. At 67mph it's a steady high frequency vibration like you'd feel in a lawn mower handle.
My '98 Dodge Cummins had bent steel rims and the vibration was a lower frequency but at the same speeds. For 89k miles I contemplated buying a set of mags but never did.
I got spoiled with my '01. 5. It was literally perfect. Not a flaw to be found. The motor smoothed out right off of idle and there was no vibration whatsoever. It had the 2100rpm drone but that's to be expected (normal characteristic) and wasn't annoying like the '03 vibration (not normal).
I put the truck back on the jackstands this morning. At idle, the rear half of the two piece drive shaft is out of round. It might only be 1/8th inch out but enough to see and feel with a stick tapping the runout as it rotates.
I'm about a nickel from going back and trading it for the '03 3500 SRW 5spd/4. 10 that I drove first. It was smooth as silk from 0-70mph. I'm starting to not like this truck.
My '98 Dodge Cummins had bent steel rims and the vibration was a lower frequency but at the same speeds. For 89k miles I contemplated buying a set of mags but never did.
I got spoiled with my '01. 5. It was literally perfect. Not a flaw to be found. The motor smoothed out right off of idle and there was no vibration whatsoever. It had the 2100rpm drone but that's to be expected (normal characteristic) and wasn't annoying like the '03 vibration (not normal).
I put the truck back on the jackstands this morning. At idle, the rear half of the two piece drive shaft is out of round. It might only be 1/8th inch out but enough to see and feel with a stick tapping the runout as it rotates.
I'm about a nickel from going back and trading it for the '03 3500 SRW 5spd/4. 10 that I drove first. It was smooth as silk from 0-70mph. I'm starting to not like this truck.
I've stated this in a previous post but if anybody would like to compare their truck to mine and is local to me, I would be happy help out as I get no vibration at all. I know how hard it is to deal with something like this so PM me if you want to take me up on this.
Good luck
Scotty
Good luck
Scotty
Keep in mind these trucks don't have Dana's anymore. They have American Axles in them which has been used in some Jeeps and Chevies. I knew the Jeep Grand Cherokees had some vibrations issues.
Gary
Gary
Keep in mind these trucks don't have Dana's anymore. They have American Axles in them which has been used in some Jeeps and Chevies. I knew the Jeep Grand Cherokees had some vibrations issues.
Gary
Gary
Steve,
That sort of sounds like mine until they tried to balance them, now it's WORSE. .
My 00 with factory alloy wheels was fine for about 15K then got a little vibration, then with a new set of tires it was slight as 40 then at about 70, but, very slight. After I installed the Gear Vendor it had a slight drive shaft vibration, but not enough for most to notice.
As soon as they get some new tires on it I'll let you know what happens.
Allen
That sort of sounds like mine until they tried to balance them, now it's WORSE. .
My 00 with factory alloy wheels was fine for about 15K then got a little vibration, then with a new set of tires it was slight as 40 then at about 70, but, very slight. After I installed the Gear Vendor it had a slight drive shaft vibration, but not enough for most to notice.
As soon as they get some new tires on it I'll let you know what happens.
Allen
That's why I say I'm about ready to trade it off and hopefully never have to visit the service dept again. My '01. 5 got a bath and a PDI and never went back. My new one went straight to the shop for a week after I signed for it. Cruise control didn't work and it had the sticking trans cooler line drainback valve. Now they keep re balancing the tires and the weights keep winding up in different places on the rims and the driveshaft is still out of round. I would have thought after the second time they re balanced the tires the driveshaft would have straightened out. My logic must be flawed.
amsoilman
Staff Alumni
I just took a 300 mile trip in my 03' 4X4 6-speed, and it deffinately has a vibration! I can feel it in the steering wheel, enough that after an hour or so of driving my hands felt numb!
I have had the truck to the dealer regarding this, but they say this is "NORMAL" with the 6-speed and Cummins HO engine.
I'm going to try to get the regional rep to look at it.
Wayne
amsoilman
I have had the truck to the dealer regarding this, but they say this is "NORMAL" with the 6-speed and Cummins HO engine.
I'm going to try to get the regional rep to look at it.
Wayne
amsoilman
I took mine in this morning to have the drive shaft replaced. They decided they wanted to drive it again. The service manager wanted to compare it to another truck. So they brought a truck like mine around except HO/48RE and Laramie. I sat around waiting for them to drive mine and then theirs only to have them come back and say the vibration is normal. BS... So I drove the HO/48RE. It was smooth. It had the normal diesel vibration that's felt in the steering wheel but no driveline vibration at all. The service writer said it felt just like mine. BS... So when we got back to the service dept. , the service manager came out and argued the same BS. He wanted me to bring it back and let someone else drive it so they can give me the same BS on a new day. We ended up in a shouting match with my thoughts that we had driven it enough. It was time to fix it. He finally agreed to swap the drive shaft with the other truck and I agreed that if it didn't fix the vibration I wouldn't bother him anymore about it. Mind you the service manager has the personality of a dirt dobber. I could tell when I left the dealership the vibration was gone. I ran it up to 68mph and other than the normal engine vibration, it's as smooth as any other I've driven. And there's no doubt in my mind the person who buys the truck with the driveshaft that came out of my truck will be back to complain about vibration and they'll stall and try to blow him off too. What a shame. It's a $40,000+ Laramie with everything. Even vibrating seats. 
Steve
Your experience is almost identical to mine, except I told them I wouldn't leave them alone until they fixed my truck. Their own vibration analyzer proved that my truck was 3 times worse than their comparison truck.
Even though I fixed it myself I'm still calling them on a daily basis to harass them (haven't told them it's fixed yet). They claim the D/C regional manager told them the truck is normal. This freaking guy hasn't even seen me or my truck but he can tell it's normal
They won't give me anything but his first name, Scott. So I call them everyday to ***** at them about setting up a meeting with Scott. I can't wait to meet face-to-face with this guy and let him go through a dog-and-pony show about how it's normal. Then I'm going to show vibration data and ask him to explain that. After that I'm going to show him the receipts and pictures I have from fixing my truck and ask him if he wants to put the vibration analyzer back on it.
I figured they made my life hell for 2 months, I may as well return the favor
Your experience is almost identical to mine, except I told them I wouldn't leave them alone until they fixed my truck. Their own vibration analyzer proved that my truck was 3 times worse than their comparison truck.
Even though I fixed it myself I'm still calling them on a daily basis to harass them (haven't told them it's fixed yet). They claim the D/C regional manager told them the truck is normal. This freaking guy hasn't even seen me or my truck but he can tell it's normal
They won't give me anything but his first name, Scott. So I call them everyday to ***** at them about setting up a meeting with Scott. I can't wait to meet face-to-face with this guy and let him go through a dog-and-pony show about how it's normal. Then I'm going to show vibration data and ask him to explain that. After that I'm going to show him the receipts and pictures I have from fixing my truck and ask him if he wants to put the vibration analyzer back on it.
I figured they made my life hell for 2 months, I may as well return the favor
PCline, you are getting the exact same run around as I am. The D/C reps. must be telling them to do this. After they change out my ring & pinion, I am going to get them to switch out the driveshaft. This is such BS! We need to do something about this! This is the second time I have gone through a situation like this with Dodge. Enjoy your truck. I know I'm not!
I would like to hound them but I'm just tired of it. I know two other people who have no desire to return to the same dealership by their own experiences with non-warranty work. When I bought my '95 from them it was a different owner and name. I had a drive shaft vibration in the '95. They ordered one and replaced it under warranty. No hassle and problem solved. My '98 had a muffler baffle broke loose inside causing an electric transformer type buzzing noise, and a bad fan clutch causing an accessory drive type vibration. No problem getting those items replaced. My '01. 5 had no problems at all so I didn't have any warranty experience with it. I could kick myself for trading it for this truck. Even though the vibration is gone and it feels good to drive now, I'd like to trade it for a different truck at a different dealership and be done with it. I'm not a forgiving person. Once I'm done wrong I don't look back unless absolutely necessary. By telling me in so many words after buying four trucks, two cars and a Durango from them, that I'm full of sht and don't know what I'm talking about, they've done me more than wrong. The sales staff and service writers are good people. They are at the mercy of the managers they work for.
PCLine
If I understand your fix, you went for 0 degrees cancellation? Any truck or Jeep I have worked on for vibration, I have shot for within 1 degree as the manual specifies. Maybe I should be trying to get them to zero. Also the one I last worked on had a one piece shaft, as does mine. Thinking back to that truck, I think it might have had a little runout in the output shaft, and when we pulled the yoke to change the extension housing, we re-indexed the yoke and found the zero runout spot by accident.
As I said in an earlier post, most guy's just won't take the time to measure the angles properly.
Glad you got yours fixed.
If I understand your fix, you went for 0 degrees cancellation? Any truck or Jeep I have worked on for vibration, I have shot for within 1 degree as the manual specifies. Maybe I should be trying to get them to zero. Also the one I last worked on had a one piece shaft, as does mine. Thinking back to that truck, I think it might have had a little runout in the output shaft, and when we pulled the yoke to change the extension housing, we re-indexed the yoke and found the zero runout spot by accident.
As I said in an earlier post, most guy's just won't take the time to measure the angles properly.
Glad you got yours fixed.
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