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Any Stihl experts here?

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Officer Killed in Line of Duty

Cost of FORD engine parts

I have an 044 chainsaw that I committed the cardinal sin of loaning to my best friend. Now, of course, it needs a complete overhaul after he failed to use the fresh can of 2-stroke mix gas I sent with it and tried to run it on straight gasoline instead... :rolleyes:



It's an expensive commercial saw and my jungle here desperately needs some attention. I bought a new crank & rod assembly and the cylinder seems to be fine. But I have found out now that older 044's, like mine, had a 10mm piston pin while newer ones came with a 12mm. The pistons will not interchange, of course, and the new crank I bought on ebay for far less than a dealer would charge is a 12mm pin newer version.



Very little info about Stihls is available online and I have been well & truly screwed by the local dealer too often in the past, so he is not a good source, either.



Does anyone know if I can simply upgrade my 044 crank with this new style 044 crank?
 
Having been a dealer for many years, I should know the answer, but don't have all the old service bulletins, and as you found out, Stihl doesn't share info. unless you're a dealer. I have several questions. First, what happened to your original crankshaft? They don't usually fail, even if straight gassed. Second, I'm surprised the cylinder is still good if the piston is damaged. This is a tight-tolerance engine and it won't forgive the things you could get away with in a old Briggs&Stratton. If you want to (or have to) use the new crank, you may need a different (larger bore) cylinder to fit the 12MM piston. In any case, it's probably worth fixing, as this saw has an excellent reliability record.
 
When he finally, sheepishly, after more than a year(!!) and many reminders on my part, brought it back and told me what he did, I put in fresh mix and removed the spark plug, and squirted some oil in the cylinder. It took some might to turn it over at first, but it loosened up some and I actually got it running. It smoked terribly, even long after the oil I squirted in the cylinder would have dissipated.



It never ran right at all, though. It remained very hard to pull & start. Then the rope broke and I shelved it out of disgust.



Recently, I ordered a gasket kit, discovered I could not order a piston until I found out which size wrist pin it required, and tore it down. I have been doing top ends on dirt bikes for many years. This isn't much different from the little 50cc racebikes my kids started out on. Actually easier; there are no reed valves or power valves. There is nothing in the way of obvious wear or scratches in that cylinder that you can feel or see at all. I would not hesitate to just put a fresh piston and rings in it if was a racebike.



The crank and rod, like you said, also exhibit no excessive slop or binding or signs of damage. I'm beginning to think my friend was wrong about his using the wrong gas. I think he just left it sit with gas in it for over a year and that the "hard pull" and rope breaking was just from a rotten old oil soaked rope. It is the carbs on these motors that are the most delicate and finicky parts. They absolutely cannot take having old gas and/or impurities in them for over a year. The rope and the carb may have been the only real problem.



But as long as I have it apart, and IF I can separate the cases (it takes special pullers), I figured I may as well put the brand-new heavier duty (genuine Stihl) crank in it. If I can do that, there are numerous high quality (but non-Stihl) aftermarket big-bore cylinder & piston kits available for these legendary 044's that turn them into real monsters. Those cylinder & piston kits are only about $100. I would have a bigger & better-than-new saw for all my trouble.



I'm definitely ordering a complete carb rebuild kit for it along with a new starter rope, of course.



I know what you mean by these Stihls being hyper-sensitive to any loss of compression through cylinder wear or scoring, though. I also own the biggest piece of crap Stihl FS-85 weedeater ever made. I bought it brand new and from day-1 it has never run right or started easily. I took it back repeatedly to the dealer. he would dink with it for a couple days, then pronounce it "fixed", but it would still be a bear to start and would soon stop starting at all.



Finally, after much research online, I read where mine was not the only model 85 that year that was pure junk. Other people are having the same problem. They were getting their carb replaced under warranty and solving the problem, though. My dealer, the utter moron, when I asked him about this as the problems continued the following year, told me he had known about the recall on the new "smog carb" but he had "just drilled the main jet instead". That IDIOT!! He had been charging me for much of the work on that POS and KNEW the carb was recalled. Now, he claimed "it is too late to get you a new carb, the warranty is up".



Well that orange piece of junk has laid around being utterly useless ever since (won't even start). There is good fuel. There is a new (identical) carb; which floods the motor as badly as old one; until gas is running out the muffler after "just" 10 or 20 pulls. There is plenty of spark. There is what feels like decent compression. But not one pop. Ever. Looking into the cylinder, it appears terribly scored, so I'm sure the compression is too low. i am anal about using nothing but fresh gas and Stihl oil in my Stihls; no ethanol; and I keep the air filter clean and oiled, just like on the racebikes. I have no idea how that cylinder could look so bad.



Nothing that says "Stihl" on it and costs that much should be hard to start at all, much less refuse to. And it has been that way from the very day I took it home brand new. I have owned Stihls that you could not killl no matter what you did, but this one is pure junk. I have two friends with separate tree service businesses who have spent many thousands of dollars at that dealer over the decades. About the same time I bought that weedeater, the place was sold to the guy's son or employee or something when the owner retired. Since the management change, that idiot has ticked off, ripped off, and lost more customers than you could believe, including professional businesses like my friends' who were his biggest customers.



Regardless of it being one bad dealer, I won't buy another Stihl. Certainly nothing with any emissions crap carbs. And if I can't get this Stihl chainsaw going, I have a line on a huge old-school (no plastic) Jonserud that should have been in the chainsaw massacre movie. It makes an 044 look puny and the guy only wants $200 for it. But I like this old 044 and i know how well it always ran, so, unlike the FS-85, I believe it is worth fixing.



The FS-85 is going to get parted out on ebay. I have no idea what brand weedeater to buy now; if you can't trust a Stihl, who can you trust? My friend has the same exact model, and it runs like a striped ape, but his is older. My brother and I literally cut our way across all of Minnesota and Iowa doing every road crossing for a pipeline the summers we were in college. We trashed every weedeater they bought until they bought a couple Stihl FS-85's. Nothing we could do to them would hurt them. But years later when I spent hundreds of my own dollars for one "just like it but much newer", I got junk. Stihl must have hired daimler engineers just before I bought mine. :confused: ;)
 
Finally, after much research online, I read where mine was not the only model 85 that year that was pure junk. Other people are having the same problem. They were getting their carb replaced under warranty and solving the problem, though. My dealer, the utter moron, when I asked him about this as the problems continued the following year, told me he had known about the recall on the new "smog carb" but he had "just drilled the main jet instead". That IDIOT!! He had been charging me for much of the work on that POS and KNEW the carb was recalled. Now, he claimed "it is too late to get you a new carb, the warranty is up".



... About the same time I bought that weedeater, the place was sold to the guy's son or employee or something when the owner retired. Since the management change, that idiot has ticked off, ripped off, and lost more customers than you could believe, including professional businesses like my friends' who were his biggest customers.



...

I would write a polite letter to the president of Stihl describing your travails and ask if that is the kind of dealer Stihl wants. You should get a fairly quick reply and you may soon find Mr. Snot's Stihl dealership license revoked. And they may even send you the updated carb.



We've a couple Stihl 'light duty' chain saws and probably an FS-85 trimmer (each 7-9 years old). The bigger chain saw wouldn't start one day, showing a weak or missing spark; turns out the magneto unit failed. It's been working fine since it was repaired. So test the spark on the FS-85. The little saw starts and cuts great. The trimmer may need a little priming because I use it so rarely, but it always starts.



Once the original cache of Stihl oil ran out, I bought a box of Amsoil 2-stroke oil packets: one packet per 5 gal. gas, 100:1 mix. The machines don't smoke; they just run. Whenever they stop running well, it dawns on me sooner or later that I need to add fuel. (I'm not used to such small fuel tanks. :))
 
I would have to agree with fest3er. Your issues are most likely with the dealer, not Stihl. I used to rent the FS85, it was bullet proof. As far as a new weedeater is concerned, you can't go wrong with a Stilh 4-mix machine.



As far as the 44 is concerned, splitting the case is a real job and you will need a flywheel and clutch spider puller. One false move and all you'll have is scrap. I would replace the piston with a 10MM stocker and put it back together. If you want more power, sell the 44 on ebay and put the $ toward a 460. Stihl products command big $ on ebay- I'm amazed at some of the numbers I got for stuff that didn't even run.
 
You guys are right on all counts, I think. I'm just going to order a stock 10mm style piston and ring kit and a carb rebuild kit and see what happens with the once-trusty old 044. I should be able to resell the 12mm pin crank.



The FS85 has very good spark, and very few hours on it and it also has a track record of nothing but problems from Day-1 (this particular machine; not the model as whole). I'm not inclined to waste another dime or moment of effort on it except to maybe send it to Stihl with a letter like Neal suggested. They can either make it right or stick it and any future Stihl sales to me where the sun don't shine.



From the reading I have done, that FS-85 has had crank seal problems from the day it was sold. The hit & miss and erratic "carb" symptoms and hard starting are all signs of a vacuum leak at the crank, which these reedless little 2-smokes are highly sensitive to. A leakdown/vacuum test would tell the story. With no guarantees or track record of ever running correctly, I'm loathe to spend money for a new cylinder and piston and crank seals and gaskets and carb for it. I would rather part it out as suggested and find a good used older one.
 
If your 85 has a scored cylinder, you found the problem, even if it "feels" like it has compression. Problem is, it has too much EGR into the crankcase. Put some oil in the cylinder to seal it and see if it will start. OEM parts might be a little pricey, maybe you can find a cylinder kit on ebay.
 
Since it has been like this (runs crappy and inconsistent at best) from the day it was new and has never had anything but fresh non-ethanol gas and stihl oil, I cannot comprehend how the cylinder got like that. . ?



But the hard starting, flooding, and inability to maintain a consistent idle or power band from Day 1 also points to bad crank seals. And I think they were bad right out of the box and were the root cause of all the subsequent troubles and misdiagnosis.



I choke when I see the price for a new cylinder for that little tiny motor. They don't seen to be available aftermarket and Stihl is downright greedy on parts pricing. It would be cheaper to have it bored and Nikasil coated (like our racebike cylinders) than to buy a tea-cup sized replacement from Stihl. But I doubt I could then get an oversized piston & ring set for it. They should have been made that way in the first place. Nikasil is tough stuff.
 
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Scott, I realize this is not much help... ..... but why isn't your friend doing the right thing and buying you a new MS440 or chainsaw of your choice within reason???



On the piston pin issue, is it possible that you could have a machine shop make you a pin? The other options as already mentioned is eBay. Maybe you can find a damaged O-44 that was crushed by a logger or in some other way damaged but still good for parts?
 
Never loan a chain saw to someone who doesn't have one. It is cheaper and easier on a friendship to just go cut for him. Never use gas that hasn't been mixed by someone that you know isn't fanatic about getting it just right. The same principle as a friend who liked chitlins, but he had to know who cleaned them. Never loan a trailer to someone who doesn't have one. Just go haul it. Unless you like to fix the lights, replace the jack, replace axles because it was overloaded, etc. , just go do it. Never loan your shotgun period. To quote Nancy Reagan, "Just say NO"! Mark
 
Yeah, I had learned that lesson before after having my saw returned with ruined chains and bar twice, I realized that anyone who does not own a chainsaw has no idea how to use a chainsaw properly. Far better to loan them $30 to go rent one at the rental store.



Since this guy has been my friend for over 40 years, best man at my wedding, etc. , I made one exception. He simply had a tree in his pasture that had gone down in a storm and needed to cut it up. I gave him 2 1/2 gallons of freshly mixed gas and a saw with 3 freshly sharpened chains that started and ran like a striped ape. Over a year later, I got a ruined saw back. I can fix the saw easier than a friendship.



People change, lives change, and though he lives only 15 miles away, I rarely see him anymore since he remarried. His 2nd wife has him living like a hermit in that remote farmhouse and she has never liked me. If I see him 2 or 3 times a year, that's about it. Suffice it to say he has far worse problems nowadays with that marriage and other related things than getting my saw fixed. And he has also loaned me some of his guns for the kids on the high school trapshooting team I coach to use for the past two years and he has helped me with home improvement projects in the distant past. It would be pretty hard to "keep score" over 40 years.



So now it's time to just fix the saw and move on. I have a rural home and the jungle is closing in and I have a dozen trees that need to come down and several more that are encroaching and threatening my shop and house. If you let these trees and brush go unchecked around here for even just a year or two, they really take over.



I have a tiny chainsaw I use for climbing & cutting, but I need some real power for these big jobs. And I don't climb quite as nimbly these days, either, but I do own a teenager that can, though he'll be leaving home in another year. Trees I used to prune regularly are now going to become firewood. Especially the ash trees that overhang my driveway and shop. Those are the WORST trees in the world to plant anywhere near anything you don't want branches and limbs falling on. Terribly brittle and they grow crazily. Can't hold up in a storm without shedding limbs. I'm getting tired of parking my vehicles in the yard if a storm is coming. I planted mighty northern red oaks 20 years ago and have never had even a single twig come down. Straight, tall, incredibly strong, and beautiful; offering magnificent shade and protection; they are my favorite tree (and furniture). Ash trees are for firewood and someone else's poperty.
 
I have an old FS85 also. It had been a good weed whacker for MANY years, but got so damn finicky that I quit fooling with it. I bought a Echo a few years ago and have been very happy with it. My 029 Stihl chainsaw has been flawless and has been run HARD though.
 
Just ran across an ad for a supposedly good used FS75 for $50. It's obviously smaller, but still a straight-shaft machine, and I wonder if it would be better than fixing my FS85?
 
Stihl used some model numbers repetitively. Is the engine orange or gray? If it's gray, it's a Shibauru built machine, they were actually very good. For $50, you really can't get hurt too badly.
 
I have a MS260 saw that has run flawlessly. Never any problems and tore through the birch and spruce up at the cabin. Love the way this saw flashes up after two or three pulls.
 
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